Notes: ESPN’s and the Press’ Silence Following Greenberg’s “Martin Luther Coon King” Statement Can Now Be Understood (and more)
March 2, 2010 by dwil
Danica Patrick's #7 car after her crash in Las Vegas.
First up a couple of more acrcane sporting mentions…
The Danica Patrick-NASCAR experiment is over for the next four months. After three NASCAR Nationwide Series races, Ms. Patrick is headed back to Indy cars for the next four months. How did she do in her first foray into the 21st century version of the “chitlin” circuit”? The Girl Wonder was involved in two accidents in the three races with neither of her making. After a cautious run at Daytona and getting caught up in crash ahead of her in her second outing while at the back of the pack, Patrick looked set to make a splash in Las Vegas. However, while running in third place after 83 laps, Patrick was cut off by Michael McDowell heading into turn one. Patrick sized up McDowell and was passing him low on the inside of the track when the Nationwide Series-only driver dove down into the turn apparently deaf and blind to the fact that another, speedier, 3,400-pound vehicle was but inches from him.
Though NASCAR drivers have no rear view mirrors, each driver has a spotter sitting high above the track watching their every move and guiding the driver around the course. Either McDowell’s spotter informed him that he was okay to dive on Patrick’s number Seven Go Daddy Chevy or McDowell failed to heed his spotter telling him to stay high because he was in the midst of being passed.
While some NASCAR commentators felt the mistake was Patrick’s, McDowell, in full roundabout NASCAR speak, blamed himself for the wreck:
I tried to giver her the outside – I started comin’ into it [the first turn] and she dove to the bottom and I closed the door. It was completely 100% my fault… I take 100% responsibility. You know it’s just… there wasn’t a whole lot of time to make a decision.”
Though it’s tough to go from the clean style of open wheel Indy car racing to the bump-and-grind of driving at 180 miles per hour with drivers using their nearly two-and-a-half ton cars – 3,400 pounds, to be exact – to love tap the rear of your nearly two-and-a-half ton car as a way of communicating everything from, “I didn’t like the way you passed me” to, “I’m faster than you, must get by, and gotta move you outta my way come hell or high water,” or some equally homespun- cornpone statement, for someone who had never sat behind the wheel of a NASCAR-style car, Patrick progressed dramatically. Additionally, attendance was up from last season at the three events in which Patrick drove.
Patrick will race 10 more time on the Nationwide series this season, next in New Hampshire in June after the Indianapolis 500.
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Ever watch the World Series of Poker? Do you play online? Do you know whether or not it is legal to play in the U.S.A.? Additionally, did you know that VISA and Mastercard have blocked its card members to directly deposit money to online poker sites?
If you are a fan of poker and play the game at many of the online poker houses you might not realize that, if you live in the U.S., what you’re doing is illegal. Barney Frank (D. MA) has led the fight to legalize Internet poker playing in the U.S. by repealing the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act which stated that credit card companies and banks could not, under penalty of the law, process fund transfers for unlawful Internet gambling. However, while attempting to stop these transaction, the law but only loosely “unlawful gambling” as it pertained to the game.
Though presently illegal, ESPN has used its website, ESPN.com, to heavily promote poker, including Internet poker. Commercials for Internet poker websites are seen throughout the day on ESPN’s television network. And the network televises the World Series of Poker, the World Series of Poker – Europe, and is largely responsible for the newly formed, North American Poker Tour. Though televising live poker, nearly every new star of live poker today cut their teeth playing at online poker houses.
Recently though, the subject of Internet poker landed on the cover of Forbes magazine. And lo and behold, the conservative economic magazine subtly advocated for the legalization of the sport/game (you choose which it is).
And now, tucked inside The Bipartisan Tax Fairness and Simplification Act of 2010 (S 3018), a proposed bill to simplify the U.S. tax code, is legislation to make online gambling, including online poker houses, legal and subject to being taxed in America:
The bill, introduced by Democratic Senator Ron Wyden and Republican Senator Judd Gregg, is an attempt to find compromise in this one arena in an increasing divided Congress.
S 3018 attempts to change the tax code and address the large number of tax breaks, with a much easier system that would put every American in one of three tax brackets (15%, 25% and 35%). The bill would also eliminate the Alternative minimum tax, as well as make significant changes to the capital gains tax.
On Oregon Senator Wyden’s webpage (www.wyden.senate.gov), there is a two page summary of this new proposed legislation, with no mention of Internet gambling, however upon examination of the legislation itself- also available on that site- the subject of online gambling eventually does take center stage (around page 126), as both a means to generate revenue and to protect American citizens interested in engaging in these types of activities.
This section, “Subtitle C–Internet Gambling, Taxation and Regulation, proposes a system where legal sites would pay a monthly licensing fee equal to 2% of total deposits made on that site the previous month. To justify this type of regulation, the bill notes numerous Congressional findings on Internet Gambling.
“Despite the increasing use of the Internet for gambling by persons in the United States, there is no Federal or State regulatory regime in place to protect United States citizens who choose to engage in this interstate activity, or to oversee operators to establish and enforce standards of integrity and fairness.”
“Internet gambling in the United States should be controlled by a strict Federal licensing and regulatory framework to protect underage and otherwise vulnerable individuals, to ensure the games are fair, to address the concerns of law enforcement, and to enforce any limitations on the activity established by the States and Indian tribes. “
Recent studies on regarding Internet gambling show that legalizing the game on the Internet could generate over $40 billion for the U.S. economy over the next ten years. And with sites like Ultimate Bet/Absolute Poker, Poker Stars, and Full Tilt Poker generating somewhere between $500 million and $1 billion in revenues, that figure could jump even higher.
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I admit it, I watched the Olympics every day of its two week existence. It was the first time there was no big run-up to the Games by the press, which scare me a little. I actually felt there was going to be some sort of “terrorist” incident because of the under the radar manner in which the Games were approaching. It would have been perfect for “our neighbors to the North” to become embroiled in some sort of violent action blamed on members of one of the “you name the group” Middle Eastern Muslim radicals wanting to be heaven-bound to be surrounded by the proverbial harem of virgins for the remainder of his ethereal existence and for the U.S. to ride, troop-heavy, to the rescue of Canadians and athletes the world over.
Thankfully the two week jock-fest went off without any such insanity.
However, the Olympics were marred by the first day of the Games death of Georgian luger, Nodar Kumaritashvili, on a course where a dozen some of the best one-man sledders in the world had already crashed during practice and complained that the course was fast and too dangerous.
Fortunately, the Games ended in a diametrically-opposed fashion. On the Games’ final day Canada faced off against the U.S. and the two teams played, perhaps, the best hockey games in the history of the sport. The game involved two all-star teams of players playing a tough but open style of hockey as opposed to the much slower clutch-and-grab NHL way of play. Additionally, fights are outlawed in Olympic hockey, so there were no stoppages of play due to players taking time out to pummel each other while referees and other players mill around the men involved appearing to take bets on which player will win the jersey-purposely-pulled-over-heads fists to the face affair.
Canada won 3-2 in overtime with Canada’s finest player and team captain, 22-year-old Sidney Crosby tallying the game-winning goal off a remarkable no-look backhanded pass from teammate Jerome Iginla. The underdog U.S. team played valiantly against their more talented opponents, fighting back from a 2-0 deficit in regulation to send the game into an extra period.
But.
What stood out to me was -this will come to no surprise to readers of SOMM – the officiating in speed skating. I witnessed local Canadian event throwing and Pan-Asian compliance event twisting. In the women’s relay, an Australian official ruled that a Korean skater fouled a Chinese skater handing a gold medal to China it did not in any way deserve. In fact the Chinese woman skated up the back of her Korean opponent on a turn and spun herself out of the race. After the Koreans won, the Australian ruled that, somehow, the Korean was at fault. Despite much protesting from the Korean coaches and team officials, the ruling was upheld. As a result the official was removed from ruling over any other events because of myriad death threats. However, he was spotted the following evening at other speed skating events grinning widely and laughing heartily in the stands, no doubt surrounded by security.
Next, in the 500-meter men’s final, Canada was handed gold and bronze medals in the event. Near the end of the race U.S. skater Apolo Anton Ohno touched the back of a Canadian skater. When Ohno removed his hand from the skater’s back the Canadian mysteriously sun out into the padding surrounding the oval. Because the hand-on-back maneuver is normal for speed skating. When skaters round turns they often use a hand place on another skater’s back to keep themselves balanced and to let the opposing skater know they are in the process of a pass. Unless a racer pushes an opponent, the maneuver is accepted. In no way did Ohno who finish second in the race, push the Canadian. However, the U.S. skater was disqualified.
Meantime at the front of the four-man pack the eventual gold medalist, another Canadian pushed his Korean foe into the padding in an effort to keep the Korean from swiping the gold from the host country. While Ohno’s non-push was judged to be a push, this push was never even discussed. Even U.S. commentators said the Korean “fell on his own” rather than tell the truth about the incident. Interestingly, the official in this event, one in which Canada pinned its gold medal hopes, was ———- Canadian.
Oh well.
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A brouhaha about the National Step Off is boiling over. Why? A White sorority won:
Visit any of the nation’s more than 100 historically black colleges or universities and you’ll see clusters of men and women engaged in the rhythmic clapping and foot stomping routines known in black Greek circles as “stepping.”
Now a white Arkansas team’s win in an Atlanta step competition has started a fiery debate over the African-inspired tradition and whether the integration of a once-ethnically exclusive activity constitutes a form of cultural theft.
“What has happened is black youth culture, what people would call hip hop, sort of made black culture accessible and appealing to all kinds of people,” said Walter Kimbrough, president of historically black Philander Smith College in Little Rock, Ark., and an expert on black Greek life. “It really now has become an American experience.”
The uproar began when the all-white Zeta Tau Alpha team from the University of Arkansas beat out five other sorority teams to win last weekend’s national final in the Sprite Step Off competition. A YouTube video of their performance, inspired by the movie “The Matrix,” generated hundreds of comments.
Posters questioned everything from whether a white group should have been allowed to compete to whether judges wowed by the unlikely competitors inflated their scores to let them win.
“Good Job but let the Black folks have their own thing for once!!!” wrote one commenter posting under the name “titetowers” who said the Zeta Tau Alpha team did well but should not have won.
On Thursday, sponsor Coca-Cola announced “scoring discrepancies” and said the runner-up — the Alpha Kappa Alpha team from Indiana University, whose members are black — would share first place and receive the same $100,000 in scholarships that the Zeta Tau Alphas won.
Oh boy, this is getting good. Having seen step offs and frats and sorority members step across campuses (and prospective members. too), I definitely have my own opinion.
Watch the video.
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Back to a sport we love and know…. this year’s NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament promises to live up to its “March Madness” moniker. Though Syracuse and Kansas appear to be the favorites going into the regular season home stretch, there are no clear-cut, overwhelming favorites going into the tournament as there have been in recent seasons.
Jim Boeheim’s zone is difficult to prepare for in one day, so the Orange has a distinct advantage against other schools in a tournament setting. However, though long-armed, Syracuse is prone to being out-rebounded precisely because of its zone. And if an opponent can pound the glass Syracuse can be had. Kansas is tough but beyond their starters, how good they are is of question. After the starting five, the four of the next five Jayhawks primary bench players are guards. Kentucky is probably the most talented team in the country, but John Calipari’s top players are, collectively, the youngest group and most prone being upset by a lower seed. Their achilles heel is the three-point shot. They don’t shoot it well and NCAA champs shoot over 40% from beyond the arc during the tournament. Finding someone to step up an hit threes will remain a problem for the Wildcats.
Villanova looks like it has most of the components to reach the Final Four. Jay Wright’s team is deep and has senior Scottie Reynolds leading the way. But they desperately need better shooting from backcourt mate Corey Fisher. The junior guard runs too hot and cold and, if he’s off on a given night, opponents can concentrate their energies on Reynolds, and the Wildcats suddenly become vulnerable. Duke is a likely number one seed in the Big Dance but of all top teams is the most ready to be upset. The Blue Devils lack a true point guard, have no reliable inside scorers, and can be beaten up by stronger opponents.
Kansas State is tough and is running under the radar until their recent rise to number four in the rankings. Now we’ll see how they feel being the hunted instead of the hunters. Without Robby Hummel Purdue is done. Ohio State has POY candidate Evan Turner, but on the whole, is counterfeit. New Mexico is not as good as their ranking indicates (nor is BYU). Butler receives more favorable officiating than any other team in the nation but is too small on the whole to compete with the big boys.
Of all the top teams, West Virginia is the most interesting. Bob Huggins’ team plays his usual brand of tough defense and can beat up opponents on the glass. The Mountaineers are led by the brilliant play of the four-headed forward monster that is Kevin Ebanks, Da’ Sean Butler, Kevin Jones, and Wellington Smith. But the guards don’t shoot it well enough to take pressure off their bigger players. Still, if Huggie’s crew gets good breaks with officiating crews during the Big Dance, the Mountaineers are a good sleeper pick for a deep run in the tournament.
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Congratulations to Michael Jordan, soon-to-be majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats. Jordan is taking control of the team from Bob “Black Excrement Television” Johnson. Charlotte is in the hunt for a spot in the Eastern Conference Playoffs and appears to have a bright future.
Though Jordan, as general manager of the Washington Wizards, was scapegoated as the sole reason for the Wizards’ failure to progress, he is known to be a master at surrounding himself with talented people and delegating responsibility to that talent.
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Speaking of the unreal nature of our world today…. ESPN radio tandem of Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic of the Mike and Mike in the Morning radio-television simulcast, are now selling books. The two are co-authors of the book “Mike and Mike’s Rules for Sports and Life” to be released April 6. The pair is also embarking on a national book tour.
Remember all the apologists who immediately popped up after Greenberg’s heinous uttering? Remember the comment sections following the mention of Greenberg and how they were flooded with commenters apologizing for Greenberg’s racist statement?
If anyone discounts the importance of these two men – especially Mike Greenberg – to ESPN, think again. And if anyone discounts the power of ESPN to silence the media, including every mainstream Black sports journalist and any Black Internet journalist with any mainstream or widely-popular platform ——- think again.
Perhaps the abject silence that continues to follow Mike Grenberg’s Martin Luther Coon King statement can be fully contextualized, fully understood.
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Sorry I’ve been away from SOMM for a few days, I had to take care of some pressing business. Also, please remember to contribute to SOMM. Pennies on the dollar journalism can’t compete with mainstream or what is designated by the mainstream as “popular” Internet journalism. Without your help sites like this one are quickly going the way of the dinosaur – and that cannot bode well for anyone.
RE: NASCAR
I was curious as to how Patrick would handle this version of racing…and no, I don’t buy that “it was an accident” in Vegas! I live not too far from Bristol Motor-speedway, so you can’t help but hear about that sport…
RE: Poker
Somehow, I’ve received a free subscription to ESPiNners mag for the last few months. You know who made one month’s cover? Phil Ivey! If the so-called mob had their hands in the NBA/refs, then what is to be said about this entity?
RE: Olympics
I only caught bits and pieces of the winter games, since I’m not really a huge fan of any of the sports. I did catch the OT in the gold medal hockey match. I’m not too keen on the tourney set-up, so it was lackluster and sort of “scripted” for me…
RE: NCAA B-ball
My recent ESPiNners issue talks about ‘cuse and their zone. Interesting take. I also caught most of UK/UT on Saturday. This year’s tourney looks to be a toss-up…
RE: MJ23
I figured he’d get into ownership…
…and no comment about M&M.
CDF-
Thanks for the comment. Danica can drive. Can she win? We’ll see. Was it an accident? I saw it on tv – I thought it was odd that he just dove in & took her out…. Thanks for the insider info on that.
I have a free script too. Yeah I saw Phil on the cover. The sites are regulated now – by the players on the sites. Because so many people think they can play but can’t, they question everything and plenty of lawsuits have been brought about various practices on some of the sites. The formula for generating hands to play is well known and is used by all. In the case of Internet poker, govt. regulation will legitimize the game to the point where we will see a poker boom unlike anything we’d thought we might see.
Olys:
The Games were good, overall. I was happy to see Bode Miler win 3 medals, too.
No comment on M&M?? C’mon!
And I added some things to the post….
Step show. It was…good. I mean the other competitor’s must have been just ok for these gals to win. It’s clever but I have seen better. I think it’s like you said the novelty of seeing a bunch of white girls do this might have inflated the score a little bit. However, not seeing the rest of the field I don’t know if they deserved to win or not.
Why would it it even occur to Greenberg to say that? Well he obviously said it before he got on the air. And that’s just assuming he said it on “accident”.
I can’t watch videos at work, and even if I could I have no way of judging since I have little to no perspective on the matter.
So, what is your feeling on this? I am curious and the work day is long.
LOL @ the Step off sponsored by Sprite. That’s sort of like that Hampton U homecoming queen “controversy”…
gmp-
I thought it was good. I swear I’ve seen much better impromptu stepping on HBCU campuses. They are white and, as awb said, they’re good. But good is all I can give them. I heard someone say the Black women’s step looked like Rhythm Nation – from the 1980s and was weak…. I guess if they had a “Best Newcomer to Stepping” award, the Arkansas women would win.
But that’s just me.
I’ve never understood how folks can watch poker on tv. Just bores the hell out of me.
awb -
The other competitors videos were also on Youtube. Trust me, I wasn’t overly wowed by any of the routines. Maybe some of it had to do with Sprite hosting and probably giving them a list of what they could and couldn’t do. The ones seen on campuses are much better.
All that said, I talked to a friend of mine that had saw the video. Both of us are grads from HBCU’s and basically thought they were graded on a curve.
OMG! Those white girls can actually step! They deserve extra points just for that!
Kinda like how Eminem fever swept the land and you had folks proclaiming him to be the best rapper. Or how Jason Sehorn was proclaimed to be an elite corner. Or Brent Barry winning the slam dunk contest.
There’s been some talk that MJ might re-name the Bobcats. It’s well known that Johnson named the “Bob” cats after himself. Don’t think anyone would mourn the loss of that name. The bigger thing folks want, is for him to not be an absentee owner like Johnson was.
What kills me though, is folks still want to know how come the team can’t draw better. For one thing, folks still are bitter how the Hornets left, and then Stern and the city council came up with a grand plan to get Charlotte a new team after only being without one for one year. The people of Charlotte voted against a new arena. The city council went ahead and built it anyway. Then, the team has just sucked for most of its existence. I always thought that if the NBA was going to give Charlotte a new team, they should have waited a couple of years until some of the people who remembered the Hornets softened.
The white chicks were legit winners though you could make a strong argument for the Skee Wees (AKAs) . Anyway, this was sort a “Bring it On” type thing because the white sorority has clearly been checking out youtube videos of step shows, but that’s not a surprise because it’s not like they have a “base” from which to work and again, their show was good.
ks -
I read somewhere that the white sorority had a professional choreographer. They won by judges vote. Which is always a tricky proposition. (Look at boxing!) They did a good job, but the crowd wasn’t buying it. If you watch the videos, the announcer makes a point to say that this was the judges decision when they are announcing which place the sororities finished. The crowd boos when they figure that the white sorority won.
Having gone to Morgan State, I can say that those girls were…aiight. I’ve seen much, much better, they won because it was something fresh.
” Mike and Mike’s Rules For Sports and Life” ? Eeww.
Dwil,
Exactly. I went to Fisk in Nashville and used to see some spectacular routines by fraternities and sororities from my school, TSU, Meharry and even Vanderbilt. Ah, college days…
I would’ve loved to have been backstage at the step show. I know there were some serious side eyes and “fuck you” stares. That shit is just funny to me. And they didn’t have to be spectacular, just good enough to win on that night. The ’07 LSU Tigers find nothing wrong with this win:)
I saw a few of the step routines and they just seemed O.K.
The girls from Arkansas were just that………….O.K.
Living in college in the south I have seen wayyyyyyyyy better steppin.
This is what happens when your step show is sponsored by Sprite and aired on MTV. Now you know they told them to tone that shit down. Look at all the customs and stuff. The arkansas girls were on some matrix mess and the AKAs were on some Rhythm Nation stuff. I mean really that mess had MTV all over it.
It reminds me when Jackson State played University of Southern Mississippi in 2003 (I think). This was the first time they played in over 13 years. Anyway the story goes that the USM told Jackson State to chill with that dancing and don’t show up their band. Man the Sonic Boom looked like garbage…………no dance squad shaking it up and dancing. No Sonic Boom band members getting low. No JSU Tiger mascot getting crunk…………..nope none of that.
I have to agree with AWB and Kos its more of a novelty and a grade on the curve.
But like Kos pointed out isn’t it always like that??? Sehorn, Eminem………hell even Nash they swore he saved the NBA.
Heck even the size of kim kardashian plastic ass getting play on TV and the news.
Yeah I went there……………….just for example women like Janet Jackson and women like Tisha Campbell-Martin & Tichina Arnold (Gina and Pam from Martin). Been walking around having big asses and a small waists for years and never got any love from folks in the media. But somehow kim kardashian’s ass is always the topic of some garbage media discussion.
“Heck even the size of kim kardashian plastic ass getting play on TV and the news.”-origin
Quoted for that TRUTH! Heck, I remember when they were giving J-Lo the props back in the late ’90s/early ’00s. It’s almost comedic!
Cosign on that brotha CDF.
Yeap they were acting like J-lo was the only human with ass.
While sistas been walking around with ass for years………….yet all they get is hate.
Shit Serena wore the cat suit and punk asses were all on radio dogging her out because the size of her ass.
I was like ain’t this a bitch…………they were just giving J-Lo props for her ass. I guess the color of the ass matters too.
Thats why I say F them hating bastards!!!!
Oh and CDF the word on that Howard girl that won………….isn’t even a full time student and attends another college and is taking classes at howard that aren’t offered at her school. So she can have them transfered…………now thats the rumor.
Now if this is true Howard should be ashamed of its self.
Don’t get me wrong, it was the novelty factor that won it for the white sorority and that they didn’t suck didn’t hurt their cause either. Of course I’ve seen plenty of way better steppin than anything going on in that competition but, that’s what happens when stuff becomes commercialized.
In terms of the ass discussion the same “novelty factor” effect is in play. KK’s ass gets much attention because its attached to a hot white girl and is very, very uncommon for her race. As amazing as Janet Jackson and Tisha Campbell-Martin & Tichina Arnolds asses are, you gotta admit it ain’t uncommon for black women – Thank God! As far as J-Lo, please, you could trow a rock at the Bronx and hit plenty of Latina girls with “J-Lo” asses.
I’m definitely rooting for Michael and the Bobcats here, but he needs to hire a good GM and get the hell out of his way!
On the white thing, the Eminem hysteria did get crazy, but at least he has top-shelf skills. The double MVPs for Nash was ridiculous, but at least he is a perennial all-star. Jason Sehorn? That man cashed in 100% on his whiteness. Not 50% or even 20%. I mean, since when do NFL cornerbacks get commercials!!! Charles Woodson wants to know.
True Kos and Modi.
The thing with Eminem was that there have been plenty of white rappers with just as tight lyrics if not better. But for some reason a kat like Eminem was picked to be the one.
Now I have always came to the conclusion that the reason was that he was willing to play into the stereotype of the crazy white boy who could rap role.
You know the whole kill my wife and throw her into the back of the trunk type of white dude.
See Aesop Rock or El-P or even an old rapper like MC Search were never playing into that role. And actaully for the most part spit ryhmes with substance and meaning.
Eminem can rap, but he’s been talking about killing his baby momma/his own momma over and over and over and over… you get the idea.
@ Origin: don’t forget Scarlett Johansson. Another white girl with a badonka-donk and white men are sniffing it like a Pug at the dog-park. But Serena’s butt is too big for ‘em. Please. If you’ve got a small stick, stay out of the crease. LOL. I like a woman with a nice turd-cutter, but maybe that’s just me.
MC Serch’s lyrics were tight LONG before Marshall Mathers stole the idea for the movie “8 Mile” from Purple Rain. Want me to list the similarities?
Purple Rain had:
1) A fledgling musical group trying to make it in the music biz a la The Time and Morris Day
2) A locale in a midwest, working-class city called Minneapolis
3) The main character’s rival is about to pork the hero’s girlfriend (and would have had Prince not shown up on his motorbike)
4) A talented but misunderstood artist trying to put it all together
8 Mile had
1) The same thing going against the Free World and Papa Doc
2) Detroit, same difference
3) BRabbit’s girlfriend gets porked pretty good by his rival that betrays him
4) A guy that threw up his cookies and froze on stage
I liked “Purple Rain” the first time I saw it. “8 Mile” was a rip-off.
Origin-
Agree on El-P/Aesop Rock v. Eminem.
Eminem was chosen as the ‘one’ because Dre gave him legitimacy, that’s all there is to it. He made it ok to like good ol’ Marshall, basically ‘this isn’t Vanilla Ice Pt II’.
Phil-
Please for the love of god, don’t call it a turdcutter. Man, this is twice. I am well aware of biological functions, but I’ve convinced myself chicks don’t do those things. It keeps me enthralled with parts of their body that otherwise might frighten keep me from… well, use your imagination.
Just start calling the vagina the ‘babysqueezer’ or ‘pisspusher’, breasts the ‘milksquirters’… Ruin all sex imagery for me.
PD: haha, so right about Purple Rain-8 mile. I never thought about it like that, but you nailed it!
Dr. Dre definitely helped give Eminem popularity, but his intricate rhyme schemes — often 5 syllables across while 8-12 lines deep — stand on their own two feet. The point is that Eminem ain’t Jason Sehorn. We all know that it takes far more than skill to become popular. Being white, having Dr. Dre’s name and beats, and saying outlandish crazy shit all helps…
But Dr. Dre also signed Joell Ortiz who can rhyme with anybody and had the marketing bonus of being hispanic. But it never panned out because Ortiz wasn’t the type to say crazy shit and his gritty New York style didn’t mesh with Dre’s super-clean production. All the stars have to align to be both skilled and popular — especially today. But IMHO the best white rapper is RA Scion from Common Market — the best shit to come out of Seattle since Nirvana. But they are just too conscious and intellectual to ever make it big.
First time I heard Eminem was back around ’98 when a buddy of mine in college gave me this tape called the “Green and Gold EP” by the Anonymous. Em was featured on the first song “Green and Gold”. It was short, but it’s still my favorite verse by Em.
MODI-
Check out some of these white rappers:
RA the Rugged Man – Biggie thought he was ill
El-P (formerly of Company Flow) – the hottest verse on Soundbombing
Aesop Rock – raps and produces
Ill Bill (formerly of Non-Phixion) – was better with the group
Vinnie Paz (Jedi Mind Tricks/Army of the Pharoahs) – horror core
Esoteric (7L & Esoteric) – funny and insightful
LMNO (Visionaries) – more Christian and laid back than the others on this list
Apathy – Underrated, great flow
Sage Francis – I want another Non-Prophets album
Good points everyone.
Modi, GMP and Kos……………true on every level Eminem is a great lyricist and Dre being his mentor set him up well. Eminem also changed his style once getting signed with Dre. He become more of a walking stereotype then anything.
Phil great point on 8 mile I never thought of it like that.
So what is get rich or die tryin based off of???
And man MC Search dropped some tight lyrics back. Remember that verse he kicked on the gas face about racism.
Dude was deep.
Modi thanks for the head up on Common Market never heard of them. I see KRS-One helped get them their big break. I will most def have to give them a listen.
Also guys one of the baddest white kats out there in Brother Ali……….dude may have jumped El-P, Doom, Immortal Tech & C-Rayz Walz as my favorite underground rapper.
If you don’t believe me check out Brother Ali’s song Uncle Sam.
kos-
RA the Rugged Man I picked up cause I saw a song on there with Killah Priest, and I had a Wu-Tang/Wu Affiliate fetish for a long time. And shit, Killah Priest really doesn’t come across as a dude that especially digs white people, so I decided to try RA on that basis alone. The album I got was ok, but nothing special.
Apathy is a Cuban dude, at least that’s what he says repeatedly in the album I have.
Strangely, I have heard the rest of your list, and I refuse to listen to LMNO due to the Christian thing. I might have an irrational dislikes, whatever.
I love it when these discussions devolve (evolve?) into music.
Origin -
I always thought that 50 Cent was trying to bite off of Kool G Rap. The original hardcore NY rapper with a lisp. (Was just listening to Rikers Island, that’s what made me think of that.)
gmp –
Never heard Apathy say he was Cuban. Of course, I also don’t have even half of his catalog. I know he hangs out with Celph Titled, who mentions in several songs that he is Cuban.
RA has some tight stuff. However, he suffers from Cannibus/Ras Kass syndrome at times. Being, an inability to distinguish good production from bad. But, I’ll also admit, some of his lyrics are painful to listen to. Best verse: from “Uncommon Valor” with Jedi Mind Tricks where he raps about his father in Vietnam being infected with Agent Orange and how it was passed on to his children.
About LMNO. Actually, I thought the same thing. He doesn’t cuss, but he also doesn’t beat you over the head with his Christianity. He mentions it in a couple of songs, but it’s not “Christian rap” either.
Kos I always said that 50 cent was doing nothing more then replacing Ja-rule.
He dogged ja-rule out with his first CD. One the reasons he became famous is that suppsoedly ja-rule boys capped him and then he came back on wax and rapped aboout it.
He came out hard core rapping on his first mainstream CD. Then his next CDs he was singing and crap just like Ja-rule.
He started beefs with everyone to help sell his CD………….the dude is a joke.
Remember that song he made back when he was underground…….”How to Rob”?
50 cent is a total joke………..and a perfect example of how modern day mainstream rap is all image. Thanks to corporate labels, clear channel and viacom.
This is a dude that called fat joe fat……………even though he was once fat, but through steriod use, lifting weights, getting signed by eminem and Dr. Dre and supposedly getting shot 9 times………wink wink. Became a platinum selling rapper.
Origin-
You may be correct, sir. I probably got the bits with Celph Titled confused.
Ja-Rule…. well, my ex-wife liked his songs. I think that pretty much says all I can say about him. Ex probably likes 50 too.
At least underground stays away from the R&B to sell songs to chicks (for the most part). And for all RZA’s bitching about it (Rap & Bullshit), I can’t help but feel that Method Man and Mary J had a lot to do with that trend.
But Mary J is the only R&B I don’t hate (at least what today is coined as R&B), so I can’t really hate on that particular song. Plus, did I mention my love of all things Wu? Especially mid 90s…
GMP you ain’t the only one.
I love Wu………..killah priest, sonz of man, grave diggers, wu syndicate, killah army, shyheim and so on.
You see that method man, ghost and Rae coming out with a CD together.
And MF Doom and ghost need to stop playing and come out with that CD together.
Origin -
You are correct! So many similarities between 50 and Rule…
A couple of studio gangstas!
Rumors are that Ghost and DOOM already have enough material for a an album and it’s the record company that’s dragging its feet.
gmp, Origin -
Does that mean that you both own U-God’s first album?! LOL Never really felt the Wu as a group after their first album.
Oh yeah, forgot about these guys for favorite white rapper(s).
Ugly Duckling – Meatshake is a classic. Best concept album in the last 10 years along with Deltron 3030.
I actually got to interview them years ago before Meatshake came out. Eclectic group to say the least. Dizzy Dustin smoking weed, Young Einstein (the DJ) was drunk, and Andy Cat telling us about how he was going on a Christian mission in the next month.
I did buy a U-god CD… I didn’t want to, but I was compelled by my completist nature. Sometimes I don’t like myself all that much.
Doom did a few tracks on Fishscale, but I would like a whole CD with Ghost. But how many Dr Doom/Fantastic Four/Iron Man references can you fit on one CD…. we just might find out.
El-P and Ghost did a song a few years back that I really liked as well.
Wu had a real edge on 36 Chambers that couldn’t be replicated. It is what drew me to rap in the first place, it was a raw album. I liked their other stuff, because I am loyal like that (and I really don’t know why, I try not to analyze that shit), but nothing came close to 36 Chambers and their first wave of solo.
I didn’t care for Ghost in the beginning, not sure why, but he h as been more consistent than the rest of Wu over the years.
Since we’re on the topic of blue-eyed hip-hop, what about the Beastie Boys? They were among the originators of the genre, and they were authentic to hip-hop and true to the game. Even though they looked like the skate-punks next door. They were what hip-hop was: fearless, inventive, dope.
One of my favorite blue-eyed hip-hop acts, of course, is Third Base. My man MC Serch and “Pop Goes the Weasel” remains the greatest lyrical beat-down of record labels pushing artists with Christian Laettner looks and J.J. Redick’s lyrics.
Also, for you old-school cats, I hear-tell that the bassist for Hall and Oates died. They were the 1980′s’ answer to The Sound of Philadelphia and T-Bone laid down the licks to some classic Hall and Oates jams. Big ups to Bobby Caldwell for “What You Won’t Do For Love” and Toto for the original “Georgy Porgy” featuring Cheryl Lynn on the hook (Faith and Eric Benet did a GREAT job on the re-make, though.) And Michael McDonald holding his own with Patti Labelle in “On My Own.” I grew up on The Doobie Brothers. “Takin’ It To the Streets” was one of my late mother’s favorite songs from that era.
Music knows know color. But R&B, hip-hop, blues and soul? It’s obvious when it’s authentic and when it just has a white face painted over it or the singer’s trying too hard to sound like Aretha Franklin or Sam Cooke.
O, kos, and gmp, thanks for all the tips as I need to bone up. These days I no longer stay on top of anything, but solely operate on tips. O, considering the past underground tip lists that you gave me, I feel happy that I can throw you at least one nugget. Some white MC thoughts:
–Eminem definitely sold out content-wise after being signed by Dre. On his “Infinite” bootleg, while there was definitely some turmoil going on, there was nothing about some evil “Slim Shady” and he even had a couple of positive songs.
– On MC Serch (and , he is definitely one of my favorites and had the pleasure to run into him at a youth conference in Detroit a few years back. He didn’t have to come, but he is definitely one of those “give back to the community” type of guys. I think that he had a local radio show for a while (maybe still does).
– As for Beasties, while I acknowledge their own place and style, I just never found them to be great lyricists. But they basically took what Run DMC did with Rock Box and just ran with it.
True talk Phil.
Man I loved Michael McDonald and my parents always played him.
Bestie boys were always tight and they are one of the few rappers who really never changed their style over the years.
Yeah I been ready for ghost and Doom.
As far as the Wu…………I didn’t buy U-god CD. I was really purchasing the affiliate kats like wu syndicate and Killa army.
Those affiliate were sticking to the wu formula more and the original Wu was trying to branch out and get more and more mainstream. Cause more and more sub par efforts.
IMO the only consistant member was GZA. His CDs were all tight and still are.
Ghost CDs were tight up till supreme………..which was the best Wu since the the Wu-tangs second CD.
But then ghost jumped on that mainstream garbage and started making crap like bulletproof wallets.
Anyway the Protools and Only built for Cuban Linx II are the best Wu albums of the last 10 years. The best since supreme clientele.
The thing I hate is that the Wu pushed lyrics so far ahead and it forced other kats to push their lyrics. But at the turn of the century lyrics begin to get more and more watered down. And sadly kats like U-god and ghost followed suit.
Listen to ghosts lyrics from Blackout CD and supreme clientele and compare it to the stuff he has made since then…………the lyrics are staright watered down.
Now I know folks have said that someone was ghosts…………ghost writer for supreme clientele. Well even if he had a ghost writer there is no excuse for the watering down of the lyrics now.
No problem Modi………..appreciate it man.
MC Search and P-nice were always my boys.
Back in the day as a shorty I even got 3rd Bass cut in my head…………LOL!!!
Lord the life of children……..LOL!!!
Anyone remember KMD???
naah, I don’t think that this convo devolved. It is just a musical extension of the discussion raised by the white girls winning the Step Off. At first I thought that they were good, but really didn’t deserve to win. But I withheld comment because I hadn’t seen the other performances.
However, as it has been said, they may have simply won by default because the competing performances were underwhelming vs. what would be expected from a televised competition. The ZTA’s snuck in under the radar. No matter who one think’s won, I guarantee that next year the AKA’s performance will be twice as good, and will blow the ZTA’s folks out of the water. …In fact I could hear the sound of them practicing right now!
I forgot about GZA, and I don’t know why. Always felt Liquid Swords was underated. Cuban Linx gets all the attention from that time period, but Meth’s Tical, ODB’s Return and GZA’s swords were my favorites. I love ODB, he was so wrong that it just appealed to me.
Every now and then I gotta put oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh baby I like it RAAAAAWWWW!!! real loud and knock shit off the walls in my house. Divorce has enabled me to do this, women don’t find this amusing…
I did all the Wu affiliate sound as well for a while, but I sort of got worn out when I realized a full third of my music was ‘Wu’… and I don’t throw shit away. I keep my CD’s from the first ones I bought back in the day. Wu just took over my collection, I decided I had to branch out into other things, get back in touch with my musical roots. Except I didn’t much care for the metal/rock of the late 90s and have only recently found some stuff from the 00s that I like.
Speaking of that, I saw a black chick singing Death Metal the other day while watching TV late. That one threw me for a loop. I don’t even like death metal and I had to download that, I mean, shit…
All that said, I missed all the non ‘core’ Wu releases from ’99 on. But I did like Fishscale. And I did keep up with GZA, even the one he did with Muggs from Cypress Hill.
Yeah that soul assasins was tight with muggs 1 and 2.
Yeah I loved that early and mid 90s wu.
Man Gza liquid swords was unreal…………maybe the best CD of the 90s.
And I probably played ODB brooklyn zoo probably 1 billion times. Same with the remix!!!
And Modi I can hear those AKAs skee weeing and stepping right now.
And speaking of AKAs I got a family full of them. They been recruiting my daughter since she was 5. Now the little girl wants everything pink and green.
Ya’ll know they got a Barbie AKA doll?
Origin -
KMD = Kausing Mad Damage.
Zev Love X AKA MF Doom from the Gas Face? I think I was the only one that loved Peach Fuzz when it came out. Maybe b/c I was always told that I had peach fuzz back when I was in middle school when I first heard KMD. I actually have a t-shirt promoing Black Bastards.
Third Bass was the isht back in the day. Really wish those guys would have stuck together. Richie Rich definitely had beats. Pete was too cool. And Search, well, he is 1/16 Blak. LOL Those were the days, the golden age of rap…..
See, every time we do one of these I get more music to get. Did the whole Kool G Rap and Immortal Technique discographies from previous discussions.
My comp can’t hold anymore music (plus it is sorta infected from my last foray into downloading). Guess I’ll have to wait a while before I try any new, new shit
gmp, in this day and age nobody should run out of hard drive space. Either go get yourself an external hard drive or dump your 486!
Shhhhhhh, don’t hate. It tries as hard as it can.
And on the other end of the spectrum, one of the pioneers of hardcore punk:
Bad Brains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aPiKMYe82o
The band that probably had more to do with my musical ADD than any, going from hardcore to reggae multiple times in the same CD. I know Dwil has mentioned them before. Dr Know was probably the first (and only, for many years) hardcore punk with actual skills at guitar.
Sorta in the same vein as the earlier discussion, except not. But I love old Bad Brains and they should get more love from the masses.