NBA Playoff Thoughts: Houston=Dirty; Orlando=Van Panic
May 7, 2009 by dwil
Note to TNT’s Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley: Now, generally, I enjoy watching you guys do your thing in the studio. But it’s obvious you love the Houston Rockets, especially Kenny Smith, the former Rocket. So, please don’t act like you’re Fox News biased, okay? Get a grip on yourselves and call the Rockets out for being the dirty team they are.
But since you won’t do the honor, or your jobs, I will.
Ron Artest: It has nothing to do with respect. You can’t forearm a guy three times to the head, that’s the problem. You can’t forearm people to the back of the head or to the chest like you did Luke Walton. You cannot constantly push people under the boards and use that forearm as a billy club on the backs of opposing players like you did Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, Bryant, and anyone else who got in your way when you wanted a rebound.
“I win fair and square, I lose fair and square. My team’s not like that… we’re not going to initiate anything,” so sayeth Ron-Ron.
Dude, you and your cohorts initiated the entire episode ————– in Game 1. I know you grew up in in an ultra-rough, every day death knell right around the corner, QB hood, but…. We know the Lakers have the “soft” label over their heads. Yet, beat ‘em up ball doesn’t fly in the 21st century; remember the Palace Revolution and play accordingly.
By the way, after touching up more than afew LA players with your underhanded play, you deserved more than a bow to the throat.
Shane Battier: Shut up. Seriously. You clutch, grab, pull, push, bump, and forearm Bryant each time the man crosses midcourt and the Lakers have the ball. You have not one negative word to say to an official. In fact, if Joe Crawford and friends called the game the way it should have been called you’d be gone before the end of the first quarter ———- or be on the bench with three fouls faster even than Andrew Bynum (that two or three fouls crap the refs pull on Bynum every frigging game must end).
Battier, you’re an okay defender – okay, and that’s it. You’re “great” when you can do all the b.s. you’ve been doing to Bryant for two games now.
The hope here is for the Lakers to up 3-1 or 3-2 in this series and up about 20 in the fourth quarter of game five or six with somewhere around four minutes to go until you get to join your pals at the bait shop. On a Lakers trip up the floor, just before Kobe gets pulled from the game, LA has the ball and DJ Mbenga is in the game. Kobe rubs off Mbenga and you follow. DJ steps out and puts a 7’0″, 255-pound forearm shiver into the bridge of your nose.
That would be justice.
Carl Landry: This is not Purdue and the Big Ten. This is not Tom Izzo’s helmet and shoulder pad practicing Michigan State team you’re playing. This is the NBA, so cut the elbows. And especially cut moving up under players when they’re about to jump for a rebound. It’s a bush league move and you’re going to hurt someone, perhaps badly. Maybe, though, that’s your intention.
But don’t be surprised if you get hurt first.
Kyle Lowry: You sure learn quick. I know in Minnesota and in Memphis you did not play defense like you did Wednesday night. If no one else did, I saw what you did to Jordan Farmar under the glass – that grab and little push when he attempted to extricate himself from you. I also saw you hold his arm at the top of the key and pull his arm when he tried shake you off to get in position to receive a pass.
My only wonder, since the two of you were alone with no other players within six feet of you and you and Farmar between Crawford and the ball, is how Joey C. failed to make a call.
Luis Scola: Ahhh, yes the Spanish Fly. How come so many of you Euro cats who are not nearly as talented as your peers play so damn dirty? You and cats like Anderson Varajao, Zaza Pachulia all play that lowbrow style game. Vicious moving screens; under the boards always got a forearm in someone’s neck with the rest of your greasy-haired self leaning on their back; throwin’ bows whenever you’re in close quarters. That elbow nonsense is almost why L.O. thought about jackin’ you. And it’s why you caught that bow to the chest-neck area from D-Fish.
You’re just lucky that wasn’t Odom’s elbow. Because if it was you hitting the ground like you did would not have been the result of one of your patented Euro-flops.
You would have been out like Ricky Hatton.
Rick Adelman: Don’t think I didn’t know who’s behind all this.
Those of us who remember know your Portland and Sacramento (or, if you’re Magic Johnson, “Saca-menno“) teams were soft as Charmin. So now it is apparent that you’re trying to make up for failing to lay the wood to MJ’s and his Chicago Bulls and Shaq and Kobe’s LA Lakers teams. But Rick, like I told Ron-Ron, it’s the 21st century NBA and that kind of ball was over in the 1990s.
It is actually kind of sad to see you resort to such tactics because you know if a Lakers starter retaliates like Derek fisher did tonight it’s going to cost them a game. It is even sadder that your target is obviously Kobe Bryant. It is saddest that deep down inside you have nightmares of MJ busting you and your Portland teams’ asses game after game in the Finals. And you’re scared to death that you will be forced to relive those sordid memories, because KB plays so much like MJ that you’re flashin’ back like a veteran acid head.
However (you know I had to get one “However” in), I can tell who’s coaching that this Rockets team without ever seeing the bench. Wanna know how?
When this Houston team begins to lose and the calls do not go their way, they start cryin’ like, tails between their legs little, “rhymes with ‘snitches’” …. and I do mean female dogs. Just like your Cowtown and whitest big city in America not named Salt Lake teams did.
Not even age has removed the punk from you.
Addendum: And then there’s the Artest “throat slash” gesture – he pointed at Kobe and performed the gesture. After the game Ron-Ron lied about his act, saying he was gesturing about Kobe elbowing him in the throat….. Way to try to avoid that fine, Ron-Ron. Then ESPN NBA analyst Tim Legler said it was Bryant who came out with a different attitude toward Battier. According to the former three point shooting champ, it was Bryant who set the tempo for the physical play. Legler brushed off Battier’s 45 or so fouls during the game, saying, “Battier is always in your shirt,” while explaining that this is “just playoff basketball” because when “Legs” played in the NBA postseason he remembered having to often fight his way out of the grasp of defenders this time of the season – as if that’s an excuse for an allegedly revamped method of officiating games and an excuse Houston’s beat-’em-up tactics.
And then there are the ludicrous, outlandish, asinine writings of Richard Justice of the Houston Chronicle:
Kobe Bryant’s elbow landed squarely in Ron Artest’s throat. At some point, the NBA will acknowledge that much.
There’ll be a meaningless letter and an even more meaningless fine, and that’ll be the end of it.
“It would be very telling, very telling, if something happened,” Shane Battier said.
Forget about it. The NBA will say it was incidental contact or that Artest should know better than to hit use his throat as a weapon against Bryant’s poor innocent elbow.
Bryant got away with two cheap shots in Game 1, and he’ll get away with the one he threw in Game 2 as well. Let’s take a collective deep breath and deal with it.
This series won’t be decided by the NBA proving it has a separate set of rules for Kobe Bryant. We already know that.
Lakers guard Derek Fisher is more likely to be suspended for the elbow he threw at Luis Scola in the third quarter. Fisher will understand. Veterans always do.
Richard I have the same advice for you that I had for shane Battier: shut up. Really. Shut the hell up you unadulterated homer. Did you even see Kobe’s elbow when the play occurred? Only after the play was slowed way down did I even see the elbow. Then to top everything off, you never even address the fact that Artest placed with equal parts vim and vigor his forearm squarely in the back of Bryant’s neck three times during the play.
————————————-
On the Boston-Orlando tip… Rafer Alston is a fighter, Charles and Kenny; he was a fighter in Jamaica, Queens, at Fresno State, and is now. And Smith, a New Yorker like Alston, should know better than to laugh and agree with Barkley’s inane statement. But then again, when Kenny was on the come up he was a witness to the hardness that is part and parcel of the boroughs, not a participant.
The bow attempt by Eddie House was uncalled for. Alston’s headband-jarring pimp slap to the back of House’s head was ———– beautiful.
“I don’t play that type of basketball,” House remarked after the game.
Ummm, yes you do.
As for the series itself, I do not believe Orlando can win this series if Boston continues to play the games in high gear.
You would think that with all those three point shooters, the Magic would regularly blow by the century mark on teams. But, per Stan Van Panic’s orders, they walk the ball up the court too much. Doing so, they fail to take advantage of a part of Dwight Howard’s athleticsm, and that is his speed versus opposing centers.
If Rafer was allowed to push the ball at every turn, Howard could beat his man and get great position on the block by sprinting to the other end of the floor and posting up. Unfortunately, Howard must fight for position against the likes of Kendrick Perkins and even Glen Davis. Those two Cees players are big, big men and if they arrive near the lane at the same time as Howard he can rarely achieve the optimum low block position he needs to score off his limited offensive game.
Additionally, walking the ball up the court makes it much more difficult for those three-ball bombers to get their shots in rhythm. In that regard, Orlando resembles college teams with scads of three point shooters but score in the 60s; the Magic are like Butler, when they should be like North Carolina.
Because the Celtics have fairly adjusted to the loss of Kevin Garnett on offense, they know they must keep the game at a fast pace to win. Doc Rivers knows that if his team gets to 100 four times in this series without any of them going to overtime, his team has a 90% chance of winning the game.
I bet he likes those odds.
Jeez, thank you! Barkley and Smith kept going on and on about how tough the rockets were, yet from where I was sitting they not only got punked, but they were crying about it. And seriously, what is this Bizarro world? They don’t play like that? Sounds like Artest has started smokin’ that good ish again. He admitted in the post game that he was crying to the ref all damn game-and that’s tough. This was just enough to push Barkley back into “I hate Kobe mode” Dang, I thought he had outgrown that.
Great article D.
The Rockets have been pulling and tugging and slapping in both games. I was pretty happy to see the Lakers start retaliating to that kind of crap.
Thanks guys. I thought no one else was hearing this from the TNT fellas and no one else saw the type of defense that was being played….. Artest did mention the time early in the game when he put his hands on Kobe – ummmm, that’s a foul – and Bryant smacked his hands away and Artest complained about Bryant’s act to the refs.
And despite this Barkley said he wants Artest on his team because he’s tough.”……. Hmmmm, wonder what Chuck was smokin’ during the commercial breaks?
Also, I added an “Addendum” to the end of the Rockets-Lakers section of the article.
I didn’t get to watch the whole game though I saw where the Lake-Show stormed out the gates in the 1st qt. This looks to be a pretty physical series coming up. We shall see game 3…
Bottom line- the Rockets play tough and the cotton ball Lakers took cheap shots to look and act tough. Seriously, dwil, Esquire, and awb… What games have you been watching? Again, as a sacra-menno king fan from back in the day, when you are repeatedly called soft as those kings were and these Lakers are, you try to “act” tough to compensate for reality. There is a difference between cheap shotting, and physical play. I noticed no defense of Fish’s ridiculous “he was closer than I thought” Orlando Pace style pancake or Kobe –itch @$$ elbow to Ron’s throat (which Artest got the foul call on). Kobe wanted no part of Ron- absolutely none… and it wasn’t to stay in the game. He was straight scared, and he knew he crossed a line with the wrong cat. He may be able to pull that crap on Battier (game one, frustrated because he was D’d up LEGALLY throwing elbows and pushing on and over and elbowing Battier -TO WHICH NO FOUL OR TECHNICAL WAS ASSESSED!), but not on Ron. I guaranty that he will not throw another bow on Ron the rest of his career. The Mediterranean coast of Italy on a pro b-ball player’s salary is not a breeding ground for toughness. You cannot fake it. Not anymore than you can fake a rap album with Tyra Banks singing back up. Kobe’s toughness is as laughable as his Italian rapping. Also, in case you all did not notice, they guy who led the Rockets to victory in game 1, you know that 7’6” dude, was on bench the whole game with crap fouls. Bynum is useless. Yao is not.
Are you serious with you critiques of Adelman? He out coached Phil then and he is out coaching him now. With Houston being the 4th or 5th largest city in this country, maybe he is in a big enough market to actually get a call for his team now. Phil’s only genius moves have ever been attaching himself to stars in big markets. He knows Stern’s agenda
Also, Argentina is not in Europe and Argentines are not Spanish. Pau is.
And to the addendum… are you saying Ron was threatening his life or something? LOL! Is that why Vanessa was down there right after the end of game interview Jackie (Doug) Christie style to make sure her man didn’t get jumped a la Rick Fox (hmm…. the Laker players ambush other players cause they get there @$$es kicked in a fair fight)? Wait a minute wasn’t Phil the coach back then too… and Fish on the team… and Kobe….? Coincidence?
Marc-ly-
Whatever. The Rockets are playing dirty ball just like Denver is against Dallas. Take your blinders off and watch a vid of the game.
And where did Scola play pro ball – Argentina?
No.
Scola played for the then Spanish League Second Division club Cabitel Gijón, which got promoted to the Spanish League First Division. He then signed with TAU Cerámica, but stayed with Gijón through the 1999-2000 season, before moving to TAU, where he played for seven seasons.
Hence, the Euro-baller moniker. Duh.
It is always amusing – and mildly annoying, unless the person continues with their foolishness, then it gets tired – when people come trying to add their negative two cents but can’t muster a single penny’s worth of factual talk.
Battier is always grabbing Kobe and rarely puts his hand up to block Kobe’s shot. Most of the time, he puts it up to Kobe’s face, which results in him slapping Kobe’s face sometimes. Artest didn’t even get hit in the neck. It was the upper chest. It was just funny how demostrative he got after he found out that they called the foul on him instead of how he thought that they were going to call it on Kobe. Scola did some acting on that hit that Fisher gave him. Of course he’s from Argentina, so he probably learned some of his acting skills from Ginobilli. The Lakers main mission might be to win a title this year, but their secondary mission is to get people to stop calling them soft.
With Stu Jackson being there last night, and the way the 4th quarter got called last night, the next game will probably be one of the tightest called since the Knicks/Heat battles in the mid-90′s. Now, if he could only get the refs to call the game fairly for Bynum!
The Celtics brought it last night. No way if the Celtics play like they did last night for the rest of the series is Orlando going to beat them without some adjustments. More Stan Van Panic?
kos-
All true…. And If the Cees play the remainder of the series like they did last night we will be able to compile a “Best of Stan Van Panic” video just from the remaining games.
I am in agreement with everything you said…except one. With the lakers game, I don’t know what game this Marc-ly was watching, but my rule of thumb is if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, well shut the fuck up,,, and I don’t use acronyms. That fisher hit was classic, a statement, it will be the turning point of the series. Joe Crawford is… man, how many times can I swear on your blog?
Can’t the NBA do something with this guy? He is a real bitch!
Yes! Ton Artest did do the throat slashing gesture, but as long as Kobe is playing the Lakers will not get the due they should, and we know Kobe won’t except for unbiased people…like Kev Dog (LOL!)
Seriously though, in the Boston game, after reaching, the camera did show the elbow by house, but and I sasy but, it didn’t touch Alston. That slap was over and beyond and reasonable form of get back. Aliston should know that if he was back in queens and threw that, he would have been on the groud gettting (as we said in the mans army) boot fucked.
That slap maybe only beautiful if you are on the black top and you don’t care about anything else. In a NBA play off gam it was stupid, bullshit and it too may be added inspiration for Boston that Orlando didn’t need.
This is my 5 cents worth!
Dwil
Aren’t you the same guy who defended Beyonce’ Fierce Vujacic(?!?) of all people in your previous post of this series. Vujacic? Sasha? WTF? I mean seriously… Sasha? Your words:
Vujavic is another Lakers player who receives a raw deal far too often for it to be a coincidence. He is an NBA player, so you would think that if he was actually committing all the fouls he was called for, coaches would have worked with him long ago to change his way of playing defense because, as a reserve, he si valuable to the team…..
Sasha is not important enough to get in foul trouble. You think anyone on the Laker staff cares? Besides, if you ask Sasha, he’s never commited a foul. He’s easy to find. He’s usually at mid court, preening with his hand on top of his head with a look of disbelief that he isn’t allowed to put two hands on a players stomach and push him right in front of the ref. But when you can wildly swing your arms at a rebound in someone else’s hands and bust their head open and no foul is called, you tend to get a since of intitlement, I guess.
Here is some factual talk for you:
The Rockets beat the Lakers in Game 1 in L.A.
The Rockets now own HCA.
Kobe will have to make 20 footers with a hand in his face to win the series (which he is capable of doing)
People (like you all, I suppose) are shocked – shocked!- that the Lakers aren’t going through the Rockets Cleveland-Detroit style and are searching for a reason, so it must be that the Rockets are dirty. I mean who gave them permission to mess up the Kobe-Lebron finale?
Again, what Derek fisher did was inexcusable and very dangerous. Kobe’s elbow was a cheap shot and again his paper tiger self WILL back down. Mark my words. He will not bring that around Ron Ron ever again.
Kos,
Battier’s m.o. is to put a hand in Kobe’s face NOT to block his shot. Battier isn’t athletic enough to block his shot so that is all the Dukie can do anyway. Kobe usually fades away so yes he does touch (not HIT) his face sometimes. And it’s called every time. Think about how often Kobe complains for a foul and doesn’t get the call. Doesn’t happen much. In context what would Ron be saying with the throat gesture? The Rockets were down nine so it obviously wasn’t taunting. Was he threatening to hurt him or kill him? No one (not a ref, not a Laker player or coach, not Jack Nicholson) has said that was the case. He WAS pointing out the elbow to the throat. I thought if there was a place that would not jump to ghetto negro conclusions, this would be it. Sadly, Kos, you proved me wrong.
And now we have sankofa stating that my disagreeing is now not intelligent and I should shut the fuck up. wow. Are we turning into the bizarre ESPN message boards where we just scream down dissenting opinion? Nice. Note to sankofa… this isn’t football. You cannot purposely go through people like that. I guess when he’s suspended, you’ll think it wasn’t warranted. Put it this way… can Artest “fight” through a Pao pick in the same fashion?
“People (like you all, I suppose) are shocked – shocked!- that the Lakers aren’t going through the Rockets Cleveland-Detroit style and are searching for a reason, so it must be that the Rockets are dirty. I mean who gave them permission to mess up the Kobe-Lebron finale?”
No, it means that the Rockets are better than Atlanta and the Pistons. I for one am glad they are getting a little bit tested.
But I think its laughable to watch a team and specifically a player like Artest who prides himself on his physicality and likes to project an air of menace on the court actually whine to a reporter about how he cried to the ref all game about Kobe slapping his hand away. For real? Kobe slapped your hand? What’s that? Kobe hit you with a ‘bow while fighting for a rebound? Jeez quit cryin’. Barkley and Smith got it exactly wrong: the “soft” team responded to the bully and the bully, as has been the case through history, cried about it.
He just needs to come clean: Kobe got to him-again-and he lost it-again. Same ol’ sh*t, different day.
Marc-ly-
Non-facts aside, players are players and Sasha Vujacic, if you watched and listened to the first two games is a very important player for the Lakers. He is their three-point shooting “marksman” of the bench (hence the nickname, “Machine”). He is also known as a defensive pest who is hated by opponents because he is relentless on defense.
So, giving this any real thought, you’d understand that removing Bynum as a viable starter and Vujacic as a viable reserve makes the Lakers much less of a dangerous team.
As far as being shocked about the Lakers going through Houston easily, it is also obvious you did not read my description of the Portland-Houston series. I described both teams as the two teams no one wants to play and found it sad that they had to play each other in the first round because either could upset a higher seed ————- so that the series is tied at one and that Houston can defeat LA does not shock me at all.
Finally, it would be incredibly stupid for Kobe to engage himself in an altercation of any sort with any Houston player. However, it is in Bryant’s history to never back down from an opponent. He has always shown that he will do whatever it takes to not get shown up by opponents (there is a famous story about him chasing down a high school teammate almost 94 feet in practice because the teammate had the “audacity” to steal the ball from him).
Again, making informed statements is important here at SOMM; you will get straightened out very quickly if you do not come correct.
Now, lest you become more of an irritant than you should be, please be factual with your statements and if you don;t have knowledge of the players you write of do enough research to find out what they’re really about so you can avoid making statements like you did about KB.
Onto Rafer Alston: It is my opinion that what he did was funnier than hell. Plus he got in House’s face and dared him to do anything. Again, like KB, that’s Rafer’s M.O. He has always been one not to back down from anyone else.
I never said it was or was not stupid – I didn’t think anyone would be foolish enough to argue, or even mention the stupidity of his act, seeing how he was traded for by the Magic to fill the role of Jameer Nelson. Orlando cannot afford to lose Alston and he knocked himself out of the box – but that has nothing to do with the visual of Eddie House getting his mama-placed headband off his head – mama-placed because House, from the headband’s placement on his head, obviously wears his headband for aesthetics and not to keep sweat from his eyes and it is placed in the position mothers place headbands on their female infants – for missing that bow.
House had already “busted his ass” (House’s words) so he didn’t need to shoot an elbow at Alston on top of consistently busting jumpers in his face. So Rafer gave him a Queens, NYC pimp slap.
It was hilarious.
awb-
Exactly.
Heh, the Rafer Alston slap was funny. And your right: I think the fact that his headband got slapped crooked is what made it so.
I’m no fan of Scola, but Fisher has to be suspended for Game 3. There are statement fouls, and then there are fouls that are intended to injure. That’s the kind of play that breaks a player’s jaw and ends his season.
Look, Phil Jackson was one of the dirtiest players in league history, his teams always play this ticky-tack whiny style outside of their stars, and he has managed to convince the league and the public that it is is the other team that is dirty.
Well, it’s BS. Battlier and Artest play tough D. And it’s up to the refs to decide where the limit is. Phil wants Kobe to be able to play with a foot of space around him.
Meanwhile, Yao just gets buried in foul trouble in yet another key game, because for some reason, the league has no interest in 7-foorters dominating.
Also, Sasha is a douche. I can’t think of a more annoying player in the League at the moment. He is the epitome of everything that is wrong with European basketball.
How is this for facts (2006):
The Suns became only the eighth NBA team in history to come back from a 3-1 series deficit with their 121-90 home victory over Los Angeles on Saturday in Game 7. Phoenix jumped out to a 17-point first quarter lead and never looked back, shooting a blistering 61 percent from the floor. Leandro Barbosa led seven players in double figures with 26 points, while versatile forward Boris Diaw collected 21 points, six rebounds and nine assists. Phoenix welcomed back Raja Bell from a one-game suspension as he came off the bench to play tough defense on Kobe Bryant and notch 13 points on 5-of-7 shooting. Shawn Marion added 14 points and 10 boards for the Suns, who outscored the Lakers by 13 on fastbreak points. Bryant led the Lakers with 24 points, but only totaled only one point in the second half. Luke Walton chipped in with 16 points. Phoenix handed Coach Phil Jackson his first opening-round playoff loss in 15 tries. The Suns, who held the Lakers to 35 percent shooting, host the Los Angeles Clippers on Monday (10:30 p.m. ET, TNT) in the second round.
That was a game 7 and that my friends is backing down, punking out, bitching up, or whatever you want to call it. Remember Bell’s suspension was because of this:
Trailing by 14 points with 7 1/2 minutes left, the Lakers got a little life when Bell received his second technical foul and was ejected for clotheslining Bryant to the floor.
“It was a bad play on my part and I overreacted,” said Bell, who scored 11 points. “I had been hit in the face multiple times in this series. It has been a pretty physical series and at that point in time I caught another elbow in my jaw and I lost my head. It was the heat of the moment and I lost my head.”
“It’s a physical game,” said Bryant, who grabbed seven rebounds. “I’m not trying to elbow somebody. That’s not what I do. That’s not how I play. If you get elbowed, you still have to keep you cool. I get elbowed all the time and I don’t go out there and lose my head. I don’t get disturbed by it. It actually excites me.
The point is that the man crush on Kobe is misplaced. His bitch-act has been going on for sometime. He wants to be tough but is just plain phony. He wants to be hood, but he just isn’t. Do you remember his reaction when bell clotheslined him and through him to the floor? It was to nut up and do nothing. Kobe allowed a 3-1 series lead to evaporate, let a phony MVP (Nash) outplay him and score 1 fricken point in the second half the first time he face the player who punked him. Methinks your assessment that Kobe never backs down is wrong…. And I haven’t even mentioned the finals last year or how way befor that he gave the Pistons a championship by not passing to Shaq and chucking up shot after shot for no apparent reason. He’s not a total fraud, but he is not what you think he is. You can’t argue the FACTS. Don’t believe the hype.
dwil
Don’t misunderstand… I appreciate your point of view. I just think you are dead wrong and -dare I say it – being manipulated by the MSM (spike lee included)…. and I honestly still can’t believe that sankofa would rather I pat you on the back and ditto all your points like he does or just STFU. I guess dissention is irritating when you’re wrong.
awb
You’re right, Artest is soft and a whiner. Who knew? How dare he complain when he so clearly hit Kobe’s elbow with his throat. The nerve.
Sorry for the multiple posts, but I just re-read the whole piece. And the summary to be seems to be, “The players I like can throw elbows indiscriminately, but the players I don’t like had better keep their hands to themselves.”
And count among those surprised that Artest’s style of play is criticized here. If anything he is Alston to the third power. Why is it ok for one to retaliate but the other has to shut up?
So you’re no longer allowed to be physical in basketball?
I guess that’s why Boston and their “tough” defense was able to flop it’s way to a ring last season.
I’ll take Houston’s “cheap shots” and Denver’s “rugged play” all day and night because that’s old school basketball. Old school Robert Parish put-a-forearm-in-your-face-Bill-Laimbeer-just-cuz-basketball…
I say keep it up. It may not fun to watch if you’re a fan of superstars, but Detroit played it’s way to a 2004 championship because of it…
Denver’s going to give LA a run for it’s money, none of y’all believe me but it will happen. While Kobe, Vujacic, Odom, Pau and others try to flop Melo will be burying Js in their grill.
I think the Bitch *ss was the player crying to the refs, reporter and anyone who would listen about an elbow that obviously didn’t even really hurt. Are you guys serious about this?
I think if anyone has a right to complain about the double standard in the league, it’s Artest.
You know that all three refs are watching him like a hawk constantly every time he is on D.
Meanwhile, Kobe plays under his own set of rules.
I don’t even think it’s an argument that certain players in the league (Lebron, Kobe, Dwade, maybe Nash, maybe Pierce) get held to one standard while others (Sheed, Shaq, Yao, Ron Ron, Dirk, pretty much any foreigner) get held to another.
Of course, this piece essentially wants a double standard so I can see the confusion.
By the way, I like physical play. I loved Rondo’s foul on Miller. I liked Kobe’s elbow. I liked pretty much everything in last night’s game except Fisher’s hit, because that had “intent to injure” written all over it.
I hate European flopping play – which includes Scola too who completely annoys me. But I think if you hate that style of play, you have to despise Sasha who spends haff the game either on the floor or whining to the ref about calls.
And I’ve always been annoyed by the way Jackson’s teams play. They want to run their perfect little offense in peace on one end wit no contact. On the other, they want to mug you. And more often than not, the refs let Phil’s squads play exactly that way.
awb,
Are you SERIOUS?
“I think the Bitch *ss was the player crying to the refs, reporter and anyone who would listen about an elbow that obviously didn’t even really hurt. Are you guys serious about this?”
The bitchass was the player who put his arms up like he did nothing wrong when the player he hit with an elbow got in his face. Just like House was the bitchass who threw an elbow and then later tried to call out Rafer for being a punk.
Kobe does this shit all the time and you apologists come on here talking about how he’s clean and pristine… Kobe throws elbows, he talks trash, it’s fine by me… don’t back away from it though like your bitchass did last night Kobe, OWN IT. Put your arms up like a bitch like “ohhhhh ewww get this big bad guy away from me” and then proceed to continue yelling “he can’t guard me” and get a “what me?” look on your face when you get called for a tech. Either own the rough play or don’t be a bitch and back away from it when someone gets in your face.
Denver in 5 against Dallas and in 6 against LA
Myron,
Don’t you know that there SHOULD be a double standard with the “superstars”:
You can’t touch DWade or LeBron they’re the future.
You can’t hurt Kobe because he’s so great.
DWade, LeBron, Kobe, DHoward, the entire class of 2003 draft can argue with officials until they’re blue in the face but Sheed or Artest argue and it’s instant tech.
yeah… bitch-made basketball is what has happened. with the infusion of euro-trash ballers who do nothing but cherry-pick threes and play no d the league has turned into “who can flop the most”. Everyone on the Celtics except Perkins flopped their way to a ring last year… the NBA doesn’t want teams like the Spurs and Detroit to win anymore so they let flopping go like it’s fun to watch. Who wants to watch bullshit fouls be called every damn possession because Rondo ended up on the floor somehow? please
Dwil
Since you’re a Lakers fan, complaining about Kenny’s bias, I’ve just go one thing to say.
Pot: You kettle, I want to talk to you man.
Kettle: What is it pot, I ain’t got time for no foolishness.
Pot: Man, I just want to say, you blacker than a mother!
Scene…
Ron Artest got elbowed, he told the ref. The ref ignored him. Artest told Kobe, the ref paid attention.
Artest fouled Kobe on the rebound. The refs called a foul. Yet, they called a foul on Artest, but didn’t catch Kobe’s elbow?
How did that happen?
What it seems like to me is that Artest felt he got elbowed because Kobe was pissed, which is what happened. Artest let the refs know taht cats throwing elbows when they get upset is not going ot be tolerated by him. Smart move.
We are talking about Kobe. The same Kobe who “suddenly” started having a shooting motion that required him slapping people in the face when they challenged his shot. That Kobe.
Kobe is as dirty as any player in the league, he’s just smarter. People complaining about Kobe getting grabbed, clutched or elbowed must have turned their sets off when he was on defense, because he does all of that.
This board is full of Laker fans.
Whining sissies.
( Love y’all though.)
Marc-ly -
What’s up with the personal attacks!? I never even addressed you. If you want to flame someone, go back to the Big Disney boards. Don’t be mad because everyone here doesn’t agree with you. You had the only “ghetto negro conclusion” on here when you started trying to call out folks for their opinions. The old heads and regulars that visit SOMM appreciate hearing other people’s opinions and for the most part respect them and the person as long as they can provide some insight, facts, or a perspective that the rest of us might not have thought of. None of us are going to agree all the time, but we also don’t engage in personal attacks.
If you don’t like Kobe and the Lakers, fine. If the Rockets are your team, fine. Don’t come up in here calling people names and questioning our intelligence. Use facts to back up what you say.
Most of us here don’t allow our liking or disliking of an individual or team to cloud our opinions, (much). I might be a Steelers fan, but I talked my fair share of junk about the team on their way to the Super Bowl. DWil might be talking good about the Lakers today in your opinion, but he was all over the team a couple of weeks ago. We’re all about being constructive and elevating here on SOMM. If that’s not your cup of tea, get to steppin’!
Everyone else-
Sorry about even feeling like I had to post this.
Big Man,
This board is full of Laker fans?
I beg to differ
Boney,
How can you complain about Kobe apologists on a weak elbow to the throat and then complain about flopping euro trash players at the same time? We wouldn’t even be talking about this if Artest hadn’t decided to get his crazy ass thrown out the game. A game that was still in reach by the way. They lost but according to you and Barkley-at least he wasn’t a “bitch-ass”. Are you kidding me? You let someone else send a message (see Fisher) not your best scorer.
And double standard? Well yeah I guess but only in the sense that Artest has a history of being a dumbass. I mean of course they are going to watch him and smart players are going to take advantage of him time and time again while he’s being “tough”.
Kos
Cats came at Marcly wrong. I saw what cats said, they insulted him first.
I’ve seen the cat comment and I don’t think he deserves being told to step.
Boney
You know what I mean. This board is crawling with Lakers fans like Courtney Love is crawling with lice.
Esquire, Dwil, Kev Dog, Awb, Kos
Shoot even Origin reps for the purple and gold sometimes. I’m not saying they co-sign everything out of La La Land, but cats are not objective when it comes to the Lake Show.
Dwill is spot on sometimes, but when it comes to the Lakers or the Redskins, well homie got a little blindspot.
Kobe bean is a dirty player. He loves elbowing cats, clutching, grabbing, flopping, all that.
He’s Bruce Bowen with better PR.
Myron-
After receiving shit physically and verbally for a game-and-a-half retaliation happened. That’s what I detailed in Game 1 and now in Game 2.
Now, D-Fish should be suspended, but like I wrote I didn’t even see Bryant’s elbow until they slowed down the play….. And you watch that play alone and then you tell me who initiated the altercation?
Unless this series gets totally out of hand, the officials will call the game as it should be called. If they do watch how many Rockets get in foul trouble – mark my words….
Marc-ly-
Last comment to you….
Real facts….
The Suns were supposed to be a juggernaut that season, had the #3 record in the West, won the Pacific Division, and were the #2-seed. The Lakers were the #7-seed and only one game from being the #8-seed. The Clippers with E. Brand, and Sam I Am had a better record than did the Lakers.
That LA ran out to a 3-1 lead was amazing and if they had won it would have been a monumental upset. They had frigging Smush Parker at point guard. Kwame Brown was LA’s 3rd-leading scorer in the playoffs! Kwame fucking Brown! Luke Walton was their #4 scorer in the playoffs. Kobe had to average over 35 a game for LA to make the playoffs.
Yeah KB was immature in Game 7. So? What does that have to do with him not taking shit from other players?
Nothing.
Now, as far as a “man crush” on Bryant, you need to go to the archives and read what I’ve written about Bryant. I have defended him against the Phil Jackson-Shaquille O’Neal two-man cabal when KB was a teen. I skewered him two years ago for being a product of his personality flaws rather than an adult who seeks to elevate himself through becoming self-aware.
Just recently I wrote that Bryant, really, is no more than an MJ simularum – but he is the best ever – so far – at attempting to copy MJ’s game and his on-court aura —– and that is probably why Spike did his documentary on Bryant.
However, like Jordan, KB is a fucking sosciopath and therefore a shark. What differentiates him from MJ on the court is that he has neither MJ’s first step not his explosive jumping ability. In every other way he is as good if not better than Jordan – basketball skill-wise.
But.
Jordan was perhaps the most vicious human ever to step onto an NBA court. The same thing that willed him and his team to chips is the same thing that makes him gamble, the same thing that makes him do what he feels with women (so say peeps in the know in N. Carolina and was reported in the “City Paper” weekly in Washington, D.C.); it is what made him, until he was put in the hoops hall of fame, actually believe that he could still step on the court and succeed – even today.
Bryant is vicious, but not quite like Jordan. That’s why he can’t will the Lakers to a chip despite the refs and despite his teammates’ poor performances.
He has something eternally immature that allows him to pout and show up his teammates when they are playing poorly and say stupid shit to them instead of rallying them and continuing to rely on them, as MJ would do.
He remains openly self-centered, rather than quietly so, as was MJ the player. He cannot stop himself from running his teammates down in practice, in games, and in the press – though he’s about as “gentle” as he’ll ever be right now.
I guarantee that as soon as his skills begin to visibly erode he becomes a real shit again. Dude just cannot help himself.
And all that is what makes him NOT Michael Jordan.
That is how I see Kobe Bryant.
However, this season I know the Lig wants LeBron to win this chip, if for no other reason, so they can validate their raising him to the level of greatness, to the face of the NBA. And if any team stands to suffer from this want, it is LA.
I cannot stand to witness agendas like that and will root for the opposite to happen at every turn. So, when I see b.s. like the manner in which Houston is playing, I rankle against it.
Additionally, Rick Adelman has coached two franchises that could have won chips but he helped them to fail. Now he has another opportunity with the Rockets, given the fact that there are no great teams in the NBA, with his team, should win a chip this year – but won’t. And part of the reason for that is tat he has obviously urge his team to play the brand of basketball they are playing rather than simply exploit the given matchups He always throws some extraneous shit in the game that sabotages his teams.
I have watched this cat at work since the early 1990s and he pulls the same shit with every decent team he has, this season’s Rockets are no different, right down to the overly-rough style of play.
Big Man-
Ummmmm, wrong…. see above. And I have never written one positive article about the workings of the Redskins. And becaue they’re so bad they haven’t deserved my attention when it comes to officials.
Mild apologies to kos because my ghetto negro statement was intended for sankofa not you. sankofa stated the following:
“I am in agreement with everything you said…except one. With the lakers game, I don’t know what game this Marc-ly was watching, but my rule of thumb is if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, well shut the fuck up,,, and I don’t use acronyms. That fisher hit was classic, a statement, it will be the turning point of the series. Joe Crawford is… man, how many times can I swear on your blog?
Can’t the NBA do something with this guy? He is a real bitch!
Yes! Ton Artest did do the throat slashing gesture, ”
THAT is a personal attack. Telling me to agree with him and Dwil or STFU. That is classic big subliminal right there. I was also condescended to by dwil for pointing out that he called Scola Spanish. playing in the Spanish leagues doesn’t make him Spanish. I didn’t even point out that that was a weak comeback.
If the intention is to start every response to OPINIONS with “great points, d-wil (or whomever) and I agree with everything you said” then apoligies again. Simply, whether you agree with it or not, I provide my insight which you can take or leave. D asked for facts, and I provided a clear example of Kobe not bucking up. I will say it again Kobe will not throw bow at artest again anymore than he would man up against Raja Bell in that game 7. paper tiger. Stop riding him so hard…
I have been reading this website for a LOOOONG time, so no need to explain the rules. I suggest you read the book Animal Farm and pay close attention that if we don’t watch ourselves, we become what we got rid of or what we don’t want to be. Respect the disagreement. Or are a giant monolith of people who really do think exactly alike.
D-wil,
What happened in Game 1 and 2 and will continue to happen in Games 3, 4, and 5 into infininty is playoff basketball. It hasn’t been this way since the early 90s. It’s been this way since, well, since I’ve been watching.
Go back and watch those Celtics-Sixers bloodlettings from the early 80s.
What happened to the league in the early 90s I lay at the feel of Pat Riley and Phil Jackson. And Phil is still doing the same stuff now as then.
Riley’s teams couldn’t handle Jordan so they turned the game into rugby matches. Phil responded by having everyone except Jordan play the Knicks’ game….and then whine about the unfair treatment. Phil being the greatest worker of the officials of all time and the coach of face of the league Michael Jordan won the argument. So his teams could pull every cheap playground tactic in the book and look innocent because “Why would a team with Michael Jordan need to play that way?” It’s the same thing. “We have Kobe, Gasol, and Odom. We want a free and open game.” That’s bs.
awb,
Kobe has a history of throwing elbows, especially during his follow through on jumpshots that actually got him suspended a couple years ago for a game..
and as far as my “bitchass” comment, I was only echoing your sentiments “I think the Bitch *ss was the player crying to the refs”..
I’m assuming you were calling Artest a bitchass for complaining to the refs for Kobe’s elbow (which he did throw, no matter how much it hurt. what kind of way to judge an elbow is to say “oh well it didn’t hurt so it doesn’t matter)… the bitchass is the guy who put his hands up when another player stepped in his face and called him on the cheapshot.
Kobe knew what he was doing, he’s an intelligent player… he knew throwing an elbow at Artest would push Artest over the edge, even better if he doesn’t get called for a foul on it and it isn’t seen. He’s a bitch for not owning the elbow that he knew he threw. He’s a bitchass for putting his hands up like he’s innocent for throwing elbows. Artest didn’t flop on the elbow, he got hit.
oh and watching the highlight over and over again… Artest’s “throat slash” gesture wasn’t a throat slash gesture. he was yelling about the elbow and made the movement of throwing the elbow…
DWil,
why all the beef with physical play in the NBA? It’s a shame that you can’t put LeBron on the floor without having to worry about being ejected anymore.
Myron-
PHIL JACKSON??? Jackson’s teams always were in the top 10 in scoring and in the top 10 in defense. Pat Riley, Jef Van Gundy – and the main person everyone seems to forget is ————– Chuck Daly.
Just because Jackson works officials – what coach doesn’t – has nothing to do with the way the game is played today. The decisions to open up the game came because of Daly, the Riley and Van Gundy and their teams playing games in the 80s and not having a problem with it.
Jackson’s Bulls teams played a trapping and pressing defense. That’s why Pip was as important as MJ – because he was long and could play man, passing lanes and interrupt passes straight away…. and Jordan was THE best defender in the NBA for quite some time… and he certainly did not play dirty hands-on ball – period.
Jackson stated that he cannot figure out how to institute the same defense with the Lakers BECAUSE of today’s rules and therefore has had serious difficulties with coming up with a defense the Lakers can play consistently (which is also why he is striving to find a group of players who can play strict man defense).
“Whining” about calls is what all coaches do – some better than others. But their whining has had no bearing at all on opening up the game and making it more offense friendly….. and shit, I don’t want to see games in the 80s anymore, either – they sucked.
And Boney-
So KB was supposed to fight Artest and get suspended for at least Game 3, right? How stupid.
And yes, it was a throat slash gesture. There is no other gesture like it. He put his thumb to his throat and did the slash.
Boney-
Was that some “for the sake of wanting to argue” statement? No one in their right mind would offer as proof that KB is a “bitch-ass” because he didn’t attempt to fight Artest.
Smart? Yes. but some sort of weakling because he didn’t fight? No way.
I will have to disagree, because to me the bitch-a** is the one who couldn’t control his emotions like a real man or real adult and got his behind thrown out. All you cat’s want Kobe to start throwing blows so he could be suspended the next game? Are you sh*ttin me? How old are you cats? And the elbow Kobe threw? Man, so what? Were you watching the first 3 quarters or Artests whole career before that moment? This is much ado about nothing because crap like this happens in the NBA everytime two teams take the court. Again, who is the real tough guy-the man who can’t control his emotions and gives in to his anger to his teams detriment-or the guy who doesn’t. Ask yourself what is easier to do-get angry and fight? Or chill with some guy in your face talkin’ sh*t.
I also disagree with Dwil on Kobe. I think he has displayed remarkable amount of maturity despite coming into the league so young. Having to deal with a**holes like Shaq and pseudo-intellectuals like Big Chief Triangle who sicced his media friends on him must have been a pain. Also, you are being way to easy on Mike in your comparison. Mike was truly an a**hole, a vicious a**hole in and outside the game, I don’t know where you get this “quiet” abuse from. I’m pretty sure there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to back me up on that. All these great players run down their teammates because I think they don’t understand why they aren’t as good as them. Sorry, can’t go with you there. Even acknowledging that Kobe is an a** too-I can’t compare him to Mike and see any appreciable difference. The real difference is that the media liked Mike more. “Tearing down” your teammates becomes “Firing up” your teammates in that situation.
Why is Artest getting killed here, but Fisher’s attempt to end the season of Scola is just dismissed as “Well, you knew that was coming….”
Fisher’s play is as dirty as it gets.
Here’s a question. If Artest lays out Sasha like that (and it would be awesome if he did), would Doug Collins have been saying “Artest is the toughest guy in the league. What a tough guy. You don’t need big men to be a tough team.” Or would they have demanded he be put in a Hannibal Lector mask at midcourt?
Like I said, I don’t mind the physical play. In fact, I love it.
What I hate is this idea that Shane Battier is “dirty” and Scola is a flopper while Derek Fisher is “tough” and Sasha is a “marksman.”
All series get chippy. Derek Fisher is the one who elevated this into a war. If I’m Adelman, I now have to send some Laker to the hospital on Friday.
Oh…but Adelman’s dirty……
In a lot of ways, this is like arguing over a beanball war in baseball. Because all we are saying is “He started it.” But the umps usually know how to end that. – kick everybody out of the game.
The NBA officials never know how to control this stuff without doing something stupid themselves.
Gotta co-sign Myron.
The player who made the dirtiest play of the playoffs, even dirtier than Rondo throwing Hinrich into the scorer’s table, is the one getting all the praise.
Crazy.
I’m from Chicago and can remember Michael getting into it with Ho Grant, Cartwright, Kerr (Steve not Johnny “Red”) very publicly. If you weren’t prepared to scrimmage like it was game 7 then MJ would destroy you. As far as Kobe getting away with throwing bows – superstars have been getting away with all sorts of stuff for a looooong time. Anybody ever see Greg Maddux pitch? Catcher would set up 6 inches off the plate and if Maddux hit the glove ….STEEERIKE. League wants Kobe v Lebron. What league wants, league will do whatever is necessary to get. Doesn’t always work out, but if you play Cleveland or LA expect uphill battle. Just sayin’.
How ’bout this. Would Barkley be talking about how tough Kobe is if he complained to the ref about a foul and started walking towards Artest as if to fight and ultimately getting thrown out the game? No-he’d say he let down his teammate.
As far as DFish goes yep it was dirty, yep he will get suspended and deservedly so. But for you Laker haters (I can’t believe I just used that term-i’m getting sucked in!!) the funny thing is the Rockets behaved just like classic bullies-they started crying. You can’t get away from that. We all saw it.
And gotta go with Dwil here. Opening up the game was a direct response to Van Gundy, Riley and Daley. I can’t even believe that’s open to debate. ’94 was memmorable to me for two things: graduating from college and being grateful that OJ’s slow speed chase interrupted what apparently was the precursor for Mixed Martial Arts in the Rockets/Knicks Finals. Jeez, that was BRUTAL
Myron-
All series get chippy? Really? Did any other series other than this on and the Denver series get like this in one game?
No. Be real, man.
Each incident I described escalates a game into what Game 2 became which is LA players retaliating for 75 minutes of being beat on
This isn’t the first time Scola has been involved in altercations. Obviously Artest has (not including the Palace). Same with Anderson Varejao, Same with Pachuia. Same with K-Mart. Same with Battier. In other words, the players I mentioned.
Yes, this is Rick Adelman’s M.O. He has always attempted to make his teams play rougher than they necessarily are come playoff time. And from his past experiences, the tactic has failed.
And Scola didn’t flop? Really?! He sure got up fast for a guy who allegedly took a vicious elbow to the throat, huh? Poor little 6’9″ 230-pound Scola.
Finally, DO NOT LIE ABOUT WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN AND DO NOT TAKE WHAT I WRITE OUT OF CONTEXT. Yes, that was me yelling. I really do not appreciate that at all, Myron.
I did not write that Fisher was tough and I wrote about Sasha V.’s shooting ability in the context of his importance to the Lakers as a reserve, not as a comparison to any player on the Rockets.
And because the convo has seemingly devolved into falsities abut what I wrote and taking what I did write out of context, I’m done with the LA-Houston talk.
I’ll join back in if people talk about the Boston-Orlando series.
Some other thoughts beyond Kobe-Artest:
– I actually picked Houston at the beginning of this year and believe that this series is going 7. Bryants 40 was hard-earned yesterday, and most games I can’t see him duplicating it against that D.
– If Fisher gets suspended (I don’t think he should), it might be a blessing. Aaron Brooks is abusing him, and Farmar needs to play this series. It reminds me of when the Lakes played sat down Ron Harper to stick Tyronn Lue on Iverson in the 2001 finals. Phil should know this. Gotta happen.
– Kendrick Perkins is the unsung hero for the Celts. He had a huge game 7 in the first round. Is taking quality shots, and is checking Superman quite nicely. The shooters will be different every night, but Perkins is indispensible in this series.
– Eddie house should stay hot all series. Doc said he is getting PT because of his D in this series, but that is just code for Ben Gordon ain’t around to abuse him off the dribble on any possession that he plays.
– Because of the various style matchups, I just can’t see Orlando winning that series. Dwight has to go off every game, and he won’t with the two wide-bodies. But if they are to have any chance, they need to start posting up Rasard Lewis at every opportunity he has Scalabrine covering him. If he stays at the three-point line, then Lewis and Scalabrine almost become a wash, and Orlando can’t afford that to happen.
Marc-ly -
Not a problem. Remember, the Enter key and paragraphs are your friends! My apologies for thinking you were a newbie.
Back to thread -
The officials get most of the blame for last night’s game escalating. They should have realized that things were going to be heated from the game before. It’s like Kobe said after the game. It’s the playoffs, of course it’s going to be physical! Since the late 80′s, physical play is seen as the way to win.
After getting punked last year by the Celtics, the Lakers said no way it’s going to happen this year. Even during the season, whenever someone said the ‘S’ word, they were quick to jump on them. The Lakers were the ‘S’ word on Monday. Last night, they weren’t.
If the officials are going to allow physical play, you are going to have to adjust to it. The Lakers didn’t on Monday night, and lost. The Rockets didn’t adjust well to the Lakers playing physical last night and paid the price. I would expect more of the same on Friday, but I am also expecting Czar Stern to be at Friday’s game given the play last night.
The Nuggets are beating down the Mavericks the same way; with physical play. Make no mistake, Kenyon Martin is picking on one player per series and testing them early for their reaction. In the first round, it was David West, this round, it was Dirk Nowitski. Both failed. Whoever plays them next round, assuming the Nuggets win, their perceived softest player will get tested early. (I’m guessing Yao for the Rockets, Bynum for the Lakers.)
awb, why should Fisher get suspended for the next game. He rightly got ejected, but isn’t suspension a little much?
Oh and Knicks-Rockets in 94 was like a track meet compared to those Knicks-Heat series!
Patrick, Oak, Mase-in-your-face… go ahead, try to come down the lane!
MODI,
Spot on about DFish. I was wondering when they were going to put in Shannon Brown. He has recently been playing better D than Farmar.
MODI
hm. Thats weird. You responded to my comment but I don’t see it posted. That’s why I posted again about D-Fish’s lack of defense. Oh well
As far as the hit, I don’t know man he looked like Blaine Bishop out there laying the ouch on Scola. I mean he left his feet to lay the hit.
And you ain’t never lied about Knicks/Heat! Oddly enough, as brutal as that particular series was I enjoyed it more than Knicks/rockets
Fisher would get a game suspension if that play happened in the NFL (a defender leaving his feet to hit a defenseless and unprepared offensive player high is the biggest no no in that league). I mean, are you honestly accusing Scola of flopping on that? Fisher lined him up for a full second.
(I also suspect that a calculated decision was made there considering Fisher is single-handidly keeping teams in games against the Lakers at this point. He can’t defend speedy guards and I’m a better three point shooter at this point. Fisher wasn’t helping his team by playing so he helped his team by getting ejected).
And dwil, I was combining your post with yesterday’s post and Collins’ comments last night.
For the life of me, I don’t understand how someone can accues Scola of being a pansy Euro-flopper (which he is) while ignoring the fact that Sasha is the exact same thing, only possibly worse.
You Laker lovers or, more accurately, Kobe fans, are a bit much. This whole “the Rockets are being bullies and the poor innocent Lakers are just retaliating” meme is absurd.
Ks,
Not really. Artest all but admitted as much in his post game interview with all his talk about being “physical” and how he used to fight back in the day and -this is classic- “Doesn’t he know, I’m Ron Artest”? (Yes Ron, he does which is why you got thrown out of the game-everybody knows your Ron Artest) Add that to his reaction to the elbow and you have classic bully behavior. Yo are acting like the Lakers haven’t been called “soft’ for the whole year and the Rockets not described as physical.
Honestly, Laker fans, can we get real here?
1) Kobe’s one of the best basketball players that ever lived. Easily one of the best of his era.
2) Kobe is not hard. He’s not. He grew up soft in Europe and then in a nice Philly suburb. And when he went pro and Chris Childs stole him in his jaw? That told you how tough Kobe truly is. Don’t get it twisted.
3) Talking shit to a punk-ass Dukie like Battier? That gets you NO props if you’re a championship player. Sorry. It’s like an LAPD officer tazering a 10 year-old. It’s like hitting a fly with a bazooka. BUT, talking shit to a Dukie that you’re beating like a rented mule? FUNNY AS ALL HELL, but….
4) Throwing bows to Ron Artest’s chest? Suicidal. Kobe can’t fight. If Ron-Ron goes Auburn Hills on Kobe it’s not going to be pretty.
5) Fisher’s my boy, but he gots to sit for a game. That was chickenshit what he did. I don’t care if he was sending a message. It was uncalled for.
As for Rafer Alston slapping Eddie House in the head? It looked like something off of the Three Stooges.
awb
Yes really. Ron Artest was known as a tough defender long before he got to Houston. Just because the Lakers have been called soft the past two years and the Rockets are being called tough this year doesn’t mean the Rockets are bullying the Lakers in this series are the poor innocent Lakers are just retaliating. That’s nonsense.
Phil Deeze,
They know who Kobe is. That’s why dwil is advocating this:
“The hope here is for the Lakers to up 3-1 or 3-2 in this series and up about 20 in the fourth quarter of game five or six with somewhere around four minutes to go until you get to join your pals at the bait shop. On a Lakers trip up the floor, just before Kobe gets pulled from the game, LA has the ball and DJ Mbenga is in the game. Kobe rubs off Mbenga and you follow. DJ steps out and puts a 7′0″, 255-pound forearm shiver into the bridge of your nose.
That would be justice.”
Justice!? That would be an outrageously punkass chickenshit move. A deliberate attempt to injure someone because Battier has the temerity to D up Kobe the same way he does against eveybody else he plays against?
Notice how it’s advocated that Kobe wait until the series is well in hand before the gutless cheapshot is delivered and that Kobe passes the dirty work to someone else instead of doing it himself. They know who Kobe is.
KS,
Exactly. Kobe’s not a hard-rock. He just isn’t. He’s got tattoos. He’s black. He’s from Philly—well, sort of, in the same way that Theo Huxtable is from the NYC.
Battier’s not man enough to steal Kobe in his jaw.
“ghetto negro statement was intended for sankofa not you.”
Exactly what does that mean? Man up about that, ’cause I need you to step strong. I stand by my statement of shutting the fuck up, because your original response was straight up inflammatory and was addressed righteously.
I don’t need to qualify whether I am a Kobe fan or not, but it seems there are not a lot of unbiased people when it come to the Lakers or Kobe Bryant.
KOS and AWB’s statements best echoes the original post about Houston, don’t start shit unless you prepared to see it through! The hate for Kobe has made me appreciate his ability to tune people out and go about his business. Y’all can say what you want but take your blinders off and realized that he finished the game and Ron Artest didn’t.
Who again is the bitch ass? I predict the series won’t go 7, precisely because the Lakers are going to refuse to be pushed around..
Also MODI even my eyes sarted hurting from watching those Knick-Heat games.
“Doesn’t he know, I’m Ron Artest”?
awb, I thought that was a great line! Absolutely loved it! And the way he smiled afterwards was great. It was like he was saying “if he keeps fucking around he’s gonna turn me back to the old me?”… is Kobe crazy?”
…Funny stuff Phil…
…Man, Bobby Hurley can’t guard me!… after the accident…
This is almost like an episode of “When Keeping it Real Goes Wrong?” Do people even know what “hard” is? What’s the definition? Who the hell in the NBA is hard? Let’s go back when Artest was involved in the Palace melee. Ben Wallaced pushed him and started advancing. What did Ron Ron do? Nothing! Now is he soft? Are you going to describe him as not hard? Of course, seconds after that he ran into the bleachers and started whaling on a (the wrong one it turned out) fan that i’m pretty sure Ron thought was smaller than him. But Big Ben was standing right there.
Go figure. Gone for the year. But that’s ok, he ’cause he gots to keep it realz! I honestly can’t understand your rationale in defending that crazy motherf*cker when he does some stupid sh*t like that. If I was on his team I would be pissed. If I was a fan, I would be pissed. Look, I am a big Mike Tyson fan and I damn near lost it when he bit Holfields ear because-he quit!! That’s all it is. And in Ron Ron’s case its excaberated because he’s got teammates who depend on him. But, y’know-he keeps it real dun!
And please. Cat’s talk sh*t in games all the time dude and KB’s MO is if the media brands you as some sort of “Kobe Stopper” he’ll try to show you up. This is funny because these attributes in other players would get lauded.
Ks. What it means to me is that you ain’t watching the games but watching what Kobe does. Take the blinders off man. The Rockets are fouling just about everytime on D
No awb, the truth is that you are watching the game through yellow and gold colored glasses. You tell me to take off the blinders and then preposterously exxaggerate by saying that the Rockets are fouling “just about everytime on D”. Perhaps you are the one wearing blinders.
Artest is a stone cold defensive beast! I can’t hate on Battier either cause he is grinding! Kobe is eating both of their asses up but man this is playoff basketball at its finest. Cats on the boards bringing it, Dwil, Sankofa, Boney, man you brothers make the games even better coming on here reading all of your posts!
At least they are letting the cats play in the West. Even the Celtics and the Magic looks like playoff basketball. But come on, anyone who is watching the Cavaliers play cannot be happy unless they are a Cleveland fan. Man the refs are letting them get away with any and everything against the Hawks! Its BLATANT!!! Lebron runs smack into Josh Smith’s chest and its a foul on Josh Smith! Lebron slaps the shit out of Mike Bibby, crickets! Mike Woodson complains about the no call and gets a tech! You know its ugly when Hubie Brown starts calling the calls bad. Lebron’s fake ass is to big to be babied and protected. Let his bitch ass play! Keep it real, they have the closest thing to a free pass to the finals that I have ever seen. They get Detroit in a weak year, two of the Hawks’ starters are out hurt, the Celtics are missing KG and Leon Powe. And he has the NBA/ESPN/Nike marketing machine behind him! Free Damn Pass!!! Oh and if any of you cats find a backbone lying around please return it to Joe Johnson’s bitch ass!
Sankofa, if you took the time to read the entry, you stated that:
“Yes! Ton Artest did do the throat slashing gesture, ”
In my eyes, you over reacted like the ref because you see him as a ghetto negro. You can call it whatever you want, but you wouldn’t have reached that conclusion had even Scola done the same after being elbowed. the man was pointing at his throat and showing an elbow at the same time. again, do you think he was threatening his life or something? Funny how no one on either team came to that conclusion.
seeing as how I have entered more comments on this subject than you, I would say that shows that I intended to see it through not to mention the fact that quite a few others agree with my assessment that Kobe is a fraud who will through cheap elbows, flop, and never square up. As Boney said… OWN IT. He is what he is… a Euro. And let me remind you of your statement to me disagreeing with you and dwil:
” With the lakers game, I don’t know what game this Marc-ly was watching, but my rule of thumb is if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, well shut the fuck up,,, ”
Classy… and very inclusive. On a website as inclusive as SOMM (used to be?), that statement is as defensible as Fisher’s cheap shot.
awb, good point about Ben Wallace…
At the end of the day, the superstars shouldn’t have to be tough. I kind of like the way it goes in hockey. Gretzky was the smallest guy on skates, but dare touch him and you’ve got five goons on your ass!!! So nobody ever touched him! But I’m kind of old school…
Never mind this game…………yo Dwil since you are here in Texas. Have you heard about the sista that is dirks fiance and lives with him.
She was arrested (at Dirks house) and has like 5 different identities and had drugs on here when she was busted. With a history as an ex stripper and has tricked folks out of money all across the state.
The story is that the league officials told Dirk not to mess with her. The story is really blowing up here in Dallas.
The thing is that Dirk tried to avoid the subject and deny that the young lady was his women. Even stating that she was a stalker. But the local media began to dig and dig. Now we have his fiances face plastered on the news.
Boy oh boy this story gets bigger by the hour.
Look I don’t like either of these teams. And really like neither of the players……artest acts hard but runs from big ben.
Yao hip checks MFers like he is playing hockey on the defensive end. Kobe takes horrible shots at times, Odom and Gasol play like they are 6-5 sometimes. And Phil………..I just can’t stand that ex hippie, weed/acid head.
Even though I am a hater of both…..I am shooting for that hater of the year award. I have to that the Rockets are being allowed to grab and hold and hit every play down the court. Which is cool I understand……..the league usually let the more physical teams do this to finese teams (like the knicks vs Bulls) in order to extend the series. At the sametime I have no problem with Kobe popping an elbow in Artest chest. After all Artest slapped Kobe in the neck with a elbow a few times before the play.
As far as Fisher hit on Scola……….it was dirty but I love it. Scola is a elbow throwing punk. He is allowed to throw elbows left and right and the refs blow no whistles on that fool.
Anyway Dwil, you know you and I said this last year. Their is no way that Kobe teams will get the same breaks that he did before the colorado incident.
Obama or no Obama…….America ain’t ready for no balck man accused of rapping a white women to be the face of a championship team.
Oh and yeah the league is cheating their @ss off for the Cavs. But they have to…..the celtics are hurt and have no players.
Another thing……….tell that weed head Phil Jackson to actually play Bynum.
Oh and here is the story on Dirk.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/050609dnmetdirkarrest.2712b2a3.html
Damn. Step away from the board for a bit and all hell breaks loose. I really didn’t even think my comment was that bad compared to many other blatant Laker praising replies. If I had known there would be this much shit, I would have stuck around longer. Sorry to leave the other Purple and Gold faithful hanging.
Marc’ly – sorry bruh, but I really didn’t even read anything else you said after you admitted being a Queens fan. The best part of beating you guys was that you really thought you would win. Nothing brings a smile to my face faster than an image of Peja chunking up airballs in that Game 7. Aww memories.
Big Man – Seriously, who is YOUR team my friend? And Kobe didn’t smack people in the face. They were hitting him in his arm and elbows with their faces. Just like Artest hit Kobe’s elbow with his chest yesterday. What games are you guys watching?
ks – yes, i am wearing purple and gold glasses and the world looks a lot better through them. You should pick up a pair my friend. Don’t forget to sip some of the kool aid either. Its very refreshing.
All jokes aside, yesterday’s game was great and I can’t wait for game 3. Before the series started, I did agree with one thing Kenny said and that was that I figured the winner of this series takes the whole thing.
And with Bynum looking far from ready, I definitely give the Rockets a chance at an upset. I don’t think they will pull it off, but I think this one is going to go the distance.
Since Louisiana had no team when I was coming up, the rockets were always kind of my back up squad when I wasn’t watching the Lakers so I’ve got no personal beef with them.
Bottom line for Game 2. The Rockets played physical. The Lakers got physical back and yeah I liked seeing that. This team needs toughness and they showed a bit of it yesterday. I liked Fisher’s play, but I expected him to get suspended. that was clearly premeditated even if I thought it was about time someone manned up.
Artest should not have gotten tossed. There should have been no call on him and Kobe under the rim. They were both just fighting for position. If the ref doesn’t blow the whistle, that scene doesn’t happen. I thought Ron should have just gotten a tech, but I could see where the ref was coming from there. His line “Doesn’t he know? I’m Ron Artest.” is an instant top five quotes for me. I’ve always like Ron and his game and was the main person on here lobbying to get him to LA.
But there’s no doubt the Rockets like to play physical defense, especially ron and Battier. Sorry, can’t feel bad for those two at all.
And Rick Adelman. Man, it really does have to suck to always lose to the same damn coach. One of these days, he’s gonna beat Phil. Just hope its not this year.
Game 3 should be great. Both teams will come out fired up, but I’m torn on who’s missing player will be the bigger factor. No question Fish provides veteran leadership and presence, but his defense….um…leaves something to be desired. If Farmar and Brown are hitting shots, I think we can weather a game without him. Wafer isn’t as well known, but had definitely been a good scorer and contributor for the Rockets. I just haven’t seen enough of their actual games to judge how big of an effect his absence will have so I’m curious to see what, if any effect it will have on the game.
Boney – I like how Denver is playing too, but I trust in George Karl’s ability to fuck it up.
Origin,
Dang, Dirk is going through it. I guess what they say is true ,crazy chicks are good in the sack, cause when you employer tells you to roll on and you keep sniffin’-well something was keeping him there!
MODI,
That’s the thing. Ok, fine Derek Fisher gets tossed or suspended but I would be pissed if Kobe was losing his damn mind and pile drives Battier into scorer table.
LOL!!!
Yeah cosign that awb.
I think y’all are overstating the Big Ben thing.
Artest already had a rep before the brawl. He had a rep as a hot head who got in trouble with the refs and he had already been talked to by Stern. Ben Wallace gets mad and shoves him. Artest gets up, he could do something crazy, but his team is winning by like 20 against their chief rival. He goes and sits on the table to make sure he doesn’t get a tech or anything. It wasn’t like he ran away, or appeared scared. It was clearly a calculated move.
Somebody throws a beer at him like he’s an animal in the zoo, and he gets pissed.
This does not compare to throwing a random bow towards the face. I can’t believe some of y’all are actually arguing that a bow to the face is understandable in basketball.
It’s not. Everybody here who has played a single pickup game knows that intentional elbows ALWAYS stop games and result in long conversations about what will and will not be tolerated. Cats don’t play that anywhere.
Esquire
Don’t cheer for a team. Only cheer for players. Teams are nothing but cutthroat corporations, can’t really get emotionally involved with any of them. I cheer for teams if the players I like play for them. Then I’m through.
Why did that Dirk story contain a random reference to Josh Howard’s drug use and birthday party?
That was hilarious.
Big Man,
I think you might be seriously understating what goes on in a basketball game, especially under the rim, especially when talking about a team and player know for their (ahem) defensive prowess. Watching the game, I don’t think that Artest had much to cry about. Honestly, i’m starting to think he acted a fool on purpose so he can get a reality show while he’s out here in Los Angeles
Also, and I don’t know if it was you making this arguement, but how is Artest calmly walking away any different than Kobe putting his hands up and backing away? I submit that there is none.
Actually, there is one difference: you mention that Artests team was comfortably ahead when Ben Wallace pushed him-if I were him thats the perfect time to “keep it real” because its not like getting kicked out then would make much of a difference at that point right? In this more recent context because his team wasn’t down by that much and he was their leading scorer-that seems a little silly to me.
AWB
In my experience, there is a difference in getting hit with an elbow and somebody elbowing you.
When I used to ball regularly, cats would always complain when I made a spin move and they got his with an elbow. Always. For me, I was just executing the move the way I was taught it, for them, they felt like I was elbowing them for being too close. And that was a minor infraction.
Whenever somebody has thrown an elbow in anger, which is what Kobe did if you watch the video, it has been a big problem. It’s like swinging at somebody.
Oh, and here’s a video montage of Kobe’s elbows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1Yt4KUND4
Big Man,
Kobe’s elbows against Ginobli and Raja Bell stick out the most for me. Raja absolutely got his money’s worth when he clotheslined Kobe in that Phoenix series, and won that battle, but Phoenix lost the war. What Kobe did was cowardly as far as swinging his elbows to “clear space.”
Everyone knows that Kobe can’t fight, but is not above bloodying a guy with a blow to the face. That’s why when he squared off against a MUCH smaller player early in his career (Chris Childs) he got stole in his face. This is why the elbow to Ron Artest is puzzling. It was calculated, in my opinion. But Ron’s “reputation” is what got him thrown out. Sadly, Kobe’s never gotten the reputation he so richly deserves as far as his throwing elbows on offense as an adjunct to further some silly punk-@ss notion in his mind that he isn’t getting calls from the refs.
Kobe has gotten suspended for throwing elbows. Someone took the time to put together a video of it and put it on youtube. So I think he has gotten a reputation for throwing elbows, along with being a punk, not having enough street cred, etc etc. He’s the most analyzed and criticized player in sports. Only A-Rod comes close to him on that one.
If this were anybody else, the entire world would have already moved on. Hell Rafer Alston straight slapped a guy upside the head and everyone has forgotten about it.
Kobe and Artest were clearly fighting for position. Artest is clearly pushing down on Kobe’s neck. Look at the video. It’s right there.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x97pux_eddie-house-slap-vs-kobe-artest-elb_sport?from=rss
But no. Artest’s physical play doesn’t matter. Its all just Kobe.
Big Man – I hear you. The corporate stuff definitely takes away from sports, but I still love my teams.
Big Man,
I don’t use the term “street cred.” I’ve never heard a real thug use it.
As far as the elbows with Kobe, we’re all aware that he’s been suspended for it; however, he’s consistently done this with the elbow thing but hasn’t be CONSISTENTLY penalized for it as far as suspensions.
Kobe needs to stick to punking Dukies. Battier won’t steal him in the face like Chris Childs did. He’s too evolved. Ron-Ron? Kobe better start using the Jedi mind trick or something. Or, drop the gloves and rumble, young man, rumble. If you’re going to throw elbows.
At some point, someone’s going to take it personal and they won’t be afraid of Kobe’s tattoos or Joey Crawford or David Stern. You throw bows up near the neck and face, be prepared to pay the price. Kobe acts like he doesn’t know the deal but this isn’t Manu Ginobli he’s dealing with.
Mike Breen is a piece of sh%$. I hate that fool………..all he and his sh^%y network ESPN focuses on is the negative.
This idiot actually said that Sasha commited a flagrant foul on wafer.
Man f$%k ESPN.
Yes, Mike Breen sucks balls. He has ruined just about every Knick game.
Jefff Van Gundy goes strong to the hole! Not only does he explain that Wafer call correctly (just as likely an offensive foul), but thanks for this one:
“Are we this soft now in competitive sports that we want to penalize everything?”
“You got to take a hit. If you’re going to give a hit — take a hit”
“I’m so tired of flagrant fouls and suspensions”
“Let the guys play basketball!”
I want JVG to just get it over with and pop Breen in the mouth.
Phil Deeze,
He already used the Jedi Mind trick on Artest-that’s why Ron Ron was watching the game from the locker room.
Additionally, a truism that I have discovered as I got older-guy’s who constantly talk about how tough they are-aren’t. Talkin loud-sayin’ nothin.
True Modi.
You ever realize how on the ESPN NBA broadcast their is very little talk about what happens on the floor……in terms of play by play and Xs and Os.
Yet you watch a TNT broadcast and you hear nothing but play by play everytime up and down the court.
ESPN just sucks monkey balls plain and simple.
Oh well. He did say he wanted the game called close. Maybe he should stop crying.
O,
One exception: When Hubie Brown calls it. Hubie is my favorite at breaking down a game.
I must say that I do like the tandem of JVG and mark jackson even if they are short on x’s and o’s. With all the bullshit spewing out of Breen mouth you need both of them to keep him in check!
Or maybe they could just get rid of Breen altogether.
You do have a point brtha Modi. I have always had respect for Hubie Brown. He is a very smart man when it comes to the game of basketball.
Everytime he speaks I learn something new.
But Breen just has me sour as heck. I think at time Mark Jackson and JVG get pulled into Breen negative toxic waste.
Its a shame that they are just wasting their talents on ESPN.
Modi have you ever looked at how the ratings for the NBA finals began to crash and burn (fall under a 10) once ABC/ESPN began broadcasting games.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings
Hey O, thanks for that link! Very interesting!!!
Now i never ever thought about the broadcast angle of it, and there very well be something to that. But I would probably assign a most of the downturn to bad matchups. Since 1982, the boring Spurs own the three lowest ratings. Only when they played the Knicks did they register.
If Tim Duncan just cracked a smile or pumped a fist once in a while, that might have helped…
When Duncan hit those threes against the Suns last year was the most expressive I have ever seen Timmay. Even he coule keep his cool then.
1. Tirico is worse than Breen, if that’s possible. A bigger corporate shill I’m afraid I’ve never seen. Ol’ skoo Hubie Brown had to set him set him straight on Ron Artest confronting Kobe for his elbows, to which Tirico could only muster a “golly gee willickers, pleeeeaaaase don’t say dat that too loud ’round Marse Stern, boss, you’se gon get us bof suspended!”
2. Flagrants, ejections, and suspensions have become ridiculous. As an LA Times columnist pointed out yesterday, dudes who aren’t even coming close to fighting are getting suspended now. Are people THAT afraid of tall skinny Black men? We still can’t congregate in large numbers? Raise our voices? And we dare not lay a finger, elbow, open palm, or our backside on either the descendants of europeans or their chosen “house” negroes – how’s that for a double entendre
!
Seriously, are the Black Codes still in effect?
Lovetron, NOBODY is worse than Breen. Every Knick game all he does is tell us how Nate Robinson has to control his entusiasm and play with more poise should he decide to celebrate more than two seconds. Even the remotest tussle of any two players comes with a lecture about players having to control themselves. Should a player get a tech he will always talk about how that player has to be smarter in that situation, and how he “just can’t understand” how these mistakes are made. (No, coaches don’t get his wrath). Every hard foul come with “the league will have to take a take a look at that”.
The quality of a Knicks game jumps 10-fold when a guy like Gus Johnson replaces Breen. The game is so much more enjoyable that it is frightening.
dwil,
Watch the replay again, he (Artest) made the motion of throwing an elbow and even said “threw an elbow” if you read his lips…
Kobe’s punkass knew what he was doing by putting an elbow in Artest’s throat. He knew that would put Artest over the top… any fan of basketball knows all it takes for Artest to go off is an elbow/punch/shove. For Kobe to put his hands up and say “get outta here man” as the referee is pulling Artest out of his face and act innocent, is a bitch move. He knew what he did, he knew counter-arguing would draw a double technical and no ejection by Artest so he stood there like a bitch and smirked while Artest had a meltdown with the cause being Kobe’s intentional elbow.
Big Man,
You can play basketball without hitting people with your elbows. It’s amazing how many all stars in the NBA play the game without hitting anyone with elbows. When you start leading with elbows or knees (pulling a Karl Malone I’ll call it) is when you start asking for trouble…