NASCAR and the Chasm Between Black and White
October 10, 2008
Kevin Harvick and Carl Edwards had an altercation in Harvick’s garage stall Thursday at the Lowe’s Motor Speewday in Concord, North Carolina. The fight between the two drivers is just the latest physical incident between NASCAR drivers in 2008.The beginning of the 2009 season began with Richard Childress Racing teammates Clint Bowyer and Jeff Burton fighting at Daytona and has continued unabated throughout the year. The following month Tony “Smoke” Stewart hit Kurt Busch in the NASCAR garage after a practice session for the Bud Shootout. Later on May, again at Daytona, Tony Eury, Jr., crew chief for the No. 88 Chevrolet driven by Brad Keselowski, along with JR Motorsports crew member Michael Sandlin, and Jordan Allen, another JR Motorsports crew member, were all suspended and fined after an altercation at the famous speedway.
Denny Hamlin and Keselowski fought at Lowe’s. Stewart was again engaged in shoving match with a USAC (United States Auto Club) official at famed Indianapolis speedway. Todd Bodine was penalized after a fight in New Hampshire. The list goes on indefinitely.
Smoke Stewart has been in one more altercation (two) than he has wins (one) this season; and that win - at the most recent NASCAR Chase race at Talledega (the AMP Energy 500) - was a gift from NASCAR officials. Stewart has been fined so many times in his career for physical altercations and verbally abusing everyone from fans to officials that these incidents have become a running joke among NASCAR drivers and aficionados.
But they are no joke. And neither are any of the fights that occur in NASCAR.
In this day when fans and the sporting press yearns for positive role models NASCAR drivers have become an anathema on the sports landscape. Forget all the football, basketball, and baseball players who have had run-ins with the police for DUI or speeding. Forget all the steroids and HGH abusers. Forget the potheads. When Carl Edwards takes Kevin Harvick and slams his head into the hood of Harvick’s car hard enough to dent it and must be put into a headlock to be restrained (according to ESPN’s Marty Smith), there is something fundamentally wrong with the white world of NASCAR.
And if the fights, the verbal abuse of fans, the continuous cheating in garages in an effort to illegally make cars faster, and the constant attempts to spin opponents out at 180 miles per hour and send them careening into a wall aren’t enough, when minorities attempt to enter the world of NASCAR they are met with racist treatment reserved for the America of the 1800s.
This isn’t the “good ol’ days” of stock car racing; the days of Cale Yarborough and Richard Petty, This is 2008. This is an auto racing association that is a multi-billion dollar business, complete with a CEO at its helm. Yet the white men of NASCAR run around the Unioted States like it is the Wild West of shoot em’ up lore instead of conducting themselves like professional athletes in every other major sport - including golf - are expected to carry themselves.
In every other sport it is a must that athletes conduct their affairs, from on court or field or course behavior, to postgame interviews, to their private time, with aplomb. Those who do not act in compliance with their leagues’ and association’s desires and mandates are fined and suspended, and regularly raked through the coals by the sporting press.
Yet Brian France, NASCAR’s CEO decided this year to relax the rules regarding fighting:
With television ratings slipping for a second consecutive year, NASCAR chairman Brian France announced in January that stock-car racing officials wouldn’t be so quick to punish drivers for bad behavior in 2008.
The time had come, France conceded, to loosen the grip on a rule book that many felt was squelching drivers’ personalities and encourage them to vent their emotions, giving fans new reasons to cheer or jeer.
What?!
Imagine the uproar if NBA Commissioner David Stern decided to allow on-court fights to go unpunished, or to give warnings to the participants instead of automatic fines and suspensions because ratings are down in the post-Michael Jordan NBA era. Imagine the response by the media if NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told NFL players that as long as the helmets come off first, a la gloves in hockey, it is fine with him if there’s a scuffle or two to help further grow ratings.
Can you say, ‘Congressional hearings?’
But in the case of NASCAR, most people outside of the sport have no idea France relaxed the rules. In fact, it was only last year that ESPN.com Page 2 writer LZ Granderson challenged fans to be more sensitive of people in NASCAR and attempted to equate the term “redneck” as used to describe fans of NASCAR and NASCAR insiders, with the word “nigger.”
And Granderson is black.
Do you think you’ll ever hear of a white NASCAR writer fight for the opposite of Granderson’s wishes? Only if he never wants to be welcome in a garage again he will.
Knowing NASCAR as we do now, it must be surmised that more than a few white men involved in the sport have been witness to, or know of people who engage in that backwoods country affair called dogfighting. They must still know where to get the best illegally distilled moonshine in the Southern counties in which they live. They probably know some local farmer who is an inch from bankruptcy who took to growin’ a little chronic to make ends meet; they might have even bought a pound or two for them and their homeboys. They more than likely know where the meth labs are in those dense country road forests. They still know somebody who shot somebody in the midst of an argument. Hell, they might have, in anger or in a drunken rage of a stupor, pulled a rifle or pistol on a friend themselves.
Surely if their fists fly so readily in front of cameras telecasting the incidents potentially to every home in America, they have done worse in private. But I bet their local law enforcement officials let them off the hook with a wink and a nod and a pat on the back and a nice piece of NASCAR memorabilia.
To get to the brass tacks of the situation, these white boys are running crazy all around the country and nobody seems to give a damn. And when the news of a fight is disseminated to the public, it is reported flatly and often with that same wink and nod given by that local sheriff or deputy.
Imagine if a black athlete was teed off to the point of fighting for what ticked off Carl Edwards; he took exception to being portrayed as a “pansy” by Harvick. We all know what the pundits at ESPN would say. We all know what every columnist around the country would write.
These men need year-long suspensions from racing. They need to be automatically dropped from their racing teams. They need mandatory anger management classes. There needs to be a local law enforcement presence in every garage and all around the the pits and assault charges need to be pressed with each incident of a physical altercation.
The repeat offenders among these men need to spend some time in jail or prison and need to be banned for life from NASCAR.
Because if they are not punished as are black athletes, it means racism is alive and well and acted out in our faces each and every day in the world of sports; acted out in the garages and the halls of Brian France’s office; acted out on the courts and fields and in the offices of the commissioners of every major sports; acted out in the editorial offices of every editor and producer of sports news content in every corner of America.
That can’t be true ——— can it?
Comments
149 Responses to “NASCAR and the Chasm Between Black and White”
I just can’t understand how this isn’t readily apparent to the average person.
Dwil,
Are you suggesting that there is some sort of double standard based on race? Like for instance that three of the sports that are comprised mostly of white men consider altercations to somehow be “part of the game”? While fights in the NBA and NFL are held up as social commentary on a whole race?
Man, that’s some ol’ bullspit.
awb-
Who, me????
[…] Why is there no stink when NASCAR drivers get into fights? [Sports on My Mind] […]
Given this context, it makes me wonder how many classes Stephen A. skipped in high school. 95%, 85% or 80%. I know it’s a very high number - but I can’t be certain. To be in the situation that you reported reveals a startling lack of awareness. It’s as if he’s had one eye gouged out, the other blind-folded; had his nostrils stuffed and his ears plugged. All he has left is — a mouth. Since he uses it to speak and breath, he’s just over-taxed.
Of course he’s not alone, but this is simply scary. Are y’all the only cats on the planet capable of connecting dots?
I was watching ESPN this morning and the entire first fifteen minutes were devoted to “Pacman” Jones and the fight he had with the bodygaurd that the Cowboys had assigned to him.
They even had the gaul to show Wade Phillips in his press conference “jousting” with reporters. Those reporters were “relating the FACTS” to him about this fight.
Unbelievable.
It’s truly remarkable to me that they can report this with a straight face while Matt Jones can be talked about on Monday night football and all of his “contributions” to the team. It makes me sick.
Another great post, Dwil. And point well taken, everyone with half a brain knows of the double standard going on. THe Malace at the Palace is a phrase every sports fan can identify. What’s the name for this NASCAR fight? Week 17? Business as Usual?
However, I would propose a different plan. I don’t necessarily have a problem with athletes fighting. These NASCAR peopel are in 200 degree cars for 4 hours with their lives on the line, if things get heated, they get heated. Same goes for all athletes, you’re exerting yourself, sometimes dangerously, the competition is palpatable, I’m shocked that there aren’t more fights in sports. My point is this, instead of getting stricter on NASCAR drivers (see: white athletes) loosen up on ALL athletes. These NASCAR fights and baseball brawls and hockey fights (see again: primarly white fight) can no longer be seen as “wink wink” moments on SportsCenter while basketball brawls are “the state of today’s violent society.” Bull. Treat them both the same. The NASCAR et al fight should be seen with less levety and the basketball and football fight should be taken with less doom. Equal treatment, people!
T3-
Not many seem to be connecting anything. And after Stephen A.’s display this morning (which I’m writing about for Monday) I’m not sure they care to. To him and the other black writers like him, the problem is with us and our inability to “conform” (his words)…. assimilate, assimilate, assimilate until your conditioning is conditioned!
Nick-
You’re absolutely right about the fights. And fights were nothing in the NFL of its early days to the 1980s; same with the NBA. As soon as both became predominantly black, team-wise, there was a problem.
But with NASCAR and the NHL fighting was and is deemed as “part of the culture.”
I haven’t heard what Smith said today and I am not sure I want to, but it sounds like he too is down with the double standard. This is weird because although I really can’t stand his on air “persona” , I got the impression he was hip to the game that the WWL promotes above all other sports-the villifiying of the black athlete. Guess, I was wrong
nice article D-Wil…
Smashing a head into a hood…
what if an NBA player had the same visual smashing a head into the scorers table… can’t begin to imagine what mitch Albom and Lupica might say on the Sports Reporters… I am cringing just thinking about it…
As for the NBA in the 1960’s, it was ridiculous… back then even the coaches would fight… I was recently reading about how Red Auerbach was scrapping… yup, it was once very much a part of the game…
That’s what I’m saying! Sports are highly emotional, physical activities, it’s only natural that “boys will be boys” and fight a little bit. But I guess only good ol’ boys can be boys nowadays. Sigh.
I have a problem with blanket statements and “no tolerance” policies (looking at you Stern), because there are always shades of gray. But some happy medium has to be met between “Look at those two Canucks fight, this is great” and “These basketball thugs are tearing themselves apart, how deplorable.” Treat them with the same weightiness or the same disdain.
Great post as always Dwil.
And I agree with all the posters comments.
As far as Steven A what can I say…………he is part of the machine, I would expect nothing less.
Dwil & Nick - I agree with all the comments, but that’s an interesting point. When you consider the amount of contact, I honestly think its pretty amazing that more fights don’t break out in football and basketball.
With NASCAR, given the danger associated with driving a car at those speeds, I can totally see myself flipping out on some driver if I thought he did something that could have gotten me killed (Lord knows I do that enough on my morning commutes to work).
But, Dwil you are absolutely correct. Knocking a guy’s head into the car is beyond just getting upset. It’s battery. No one in their right mind should be defending that. And if anyone believes there is no double standard here, go look up Kermit Washington.
As for the journalists on the 4-letter, Granderson continues the complete rush to the bottom of the barrel for black journalists on ESPN since Wiley passed away.
I love this article!! Glad to know that someone is giving us the truth because I didn’t know that NASCAR had relaxed their rules on fighting or confrontations. As was said earlier you certainly won’t see that point of view on ESPN, FOX Sports or any of the other blogs or websites. You’ll never see Carl Edwards crucified like those media outlets would see Ron Artest, Latrell Sprewell or any other athlete of color that had an altercation. We have seen it all to frequently with the double standard in the coverage of the fighting in NASCAR and the NHL, the racism in professional soccer, the use of performance enhancing drugs in cycling and swimming, etc.
After watching ESPN today, which I rarely do, I lost all respect for stephen a. smith. I won’t even capitalize his name because it doesn’t deserve to be capitalized. Him and that male-impersonator skip bayless were asked to speak on the racial aspect of the coverage on Adam Jones. Rather than commenting on that, smith and Sister Boy bayless gave the African-American athletes a lecture on how they should realize that the white fans pay their salary and gosh darn it they should be grateful. They said these athletes of color should behave like the white public wants them to act. Sister Boy even saw fit to to tell that sell-out stephen a that he was glad that he made this commentary to these wayward professional athletes. It was a perfomance that jason “house negro” whitlock would be proud of. I guess we can officially change his address to the big house with tom jackson, mike tirico, keyshawn johnson, mike wilbon and terrence moore.
I’m with Nick in that I actually miss the scraps especially during the playoffs in the NFL and especially the NBA. The dust-ups allowed the teams to set the parameters of how the series would be played and then the ballin’ would start. The LIG then knew enough to let the players go at it, clean up the sweat and blood, and inbound the ball to start play again. But again it’s who’s doing the fighting that gets the condemnation as opposed to the boys-will-be-boys treatment.
The side issues of sports like the unequal treatment of athletes of color, contracts, gotcah journalism, et.al is really beginning to gnaw at me. I would stop watching sports but I know it just reflects the general society as a whole and I’d see, read, and hear the same thing writ five times as large in the ‘mainstream’ news.
As a casual motorsports fan which includes the ‘good ‘ole boys’ in NASCAR taxi’s living in England, this article seems to suggest that different standards are being applied to the behaviour of white athletes and black athletes in the USA can this be correct ?
This article obviously is written by someone who doesn’t know the facts. Edwards’ head was not slammed into the hood.
The hood is made of 1/8″ sheet metal that bends like tin foil with weight on it.
Have you ever seen a two football players get in a shoving match on the field? And how often are those even penalized, much less fined?
This is ignorance, at best. I’m disappointed in DWil for following the national media’s trend of reporting on NASCAR without any firsthand knowledge.
And as I read this again, the incredible amount of factual errors is astounding.
Locations, people, actual events … at least 75% in this article are incorrect.
The fallacies are like saying the Los Angeles Lakers instead of the Indiana Pacers were the other team in the Malace at the Palace.
Embarrasing, DWil. This is not journalism, it’s emotional writing without clear intent.
I guess the real issue here is nothing to do with race at all, we should all condem all violence period
This is why bloggers are not considered real journalists. No journalistic integrity. No concern for printing factual articles. No accountability. If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, try taking your fact checking seriously.
And your fifth paragraph is a joke. Forget all the other criminals in the world of sports, but condemn NASCAR for an event that didn’t even happen the way you tell it. Nobody’s head was slammed into the hood of any car.
DWil- Like Geoff said this article is a total piece of crap. You would be hard pressed to backup any of the so called facts you have made in your piece. The lack of research on your part is inherent in the garbage people eat up on the net. If any of your regular readers believe that Harvicks head was slammed into the hood of his car, and nothing was done, then you all deserve each other. Nothing like that ever happened. Go get the facts for yourself and see what a buffoon this Dwil really is. What a dispicable piece of biased uninformed race baiting you have perpetuated upon your readers. Journalism as we know in this country is dead.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Is-the-Harvick-Edwards-fight-treatment-a-racial-?urn=nascar,114399#remaining-content
So you guys are saying these altercations did not take place? And that the president did not relax the rules?
‘Scuse me. Not president but CEO.
you clearly have no idea what u are talking about.
How can u “surmise” all the things you did about nascar?? U are complaining about a racial issue and yet u use sterotypical redderick in your article to prove your point?? Doesnt that defeat the whole point of your article?? I am a passionate nascar fan and do not live up to any of the sterotypes you put out there. And i ask you this: Have you NEVER wanted to throw a punch when someone did something or said something to you and it made you so mad that u just felt like you needed to beat them? And think about that moment: Were there any cameras nearby? Were there any reporters nearby to catch your every move? Was there anybody nearby at all who would capture your one moment of anger and hostility and publish it out to the world? I’m assuming the answer was no and in that case, could you not give these drivers the benefit of the doubt that this was their one moment to get mad and unfortunately for them, reporters and cameras are nearby like paparazzi to catch every move they make. Can you imagine a life like that? B/c i cant and I’m willing to give people who live like that a break when it happens.
1) Jeff Burton and Clint Bowyer didnt have a fight. They had a verbal disagreement which escalated to no more than a heated discussion. NO Punches, NO Physical fighting, Nothing.
2) The Tony Stewart/ Kurt Busch issue was at the Daytona 500 and whether it involved any fighting is left to those involved b/c if it happened it happened in the Nascar hauler. The issue stemed from wrecks the two had together and words that were supposedly exchanged in the Nascar hauler. If anything happened, it would have been stopped as soon as it started b/c the two men were in the prescence of officals.
3) The Brad Keselowski issue happened at Lowes in May (Nascar goes to Daytona again in July not May. I’ve never heard of Nascar going to Daytona in July). What happened there was that Brad Keselowski and Denny Hamlin were racing each other and they got a little rough with it. OH and it happened in the Nationwide series, which is the racing series below the Sprint Cup series. Anyway, the drivers were upset over it and and their CREWS tried to fight but the officals pulled the two teams apart. Brad Keselowski’s crew chief is Tony Eury SR. That was when Hamlin and Keselowski supposedly fought (they didnt their crews did try to however)
4) Tony Stewart had an issue w/ an offical in a USAC race at a track near Indy not at Indy itself.
5) Todd Bodine’s crew got into a fight w/ David Starrs crew, not Todd Bodine himself.
6) Carl Edwards didnt slam Harvicks head into the hood. Harvick pushed Edwards and Edwards landed on the hood. And there are even pictures to prove this (go to foxsports.com and check them out. NO where there do i see pictures of someones head getting slammed into a hood and they would have taken them if they took pictures of what they took pictures of. What actually happened its tame compared to what u “describe”)
7) How can u forget all the things that other athletes have done??!! If fighting is the only problem NASCAR has then I’d say Nascar has no problems at all when compared to other sports. Nascar doesnt have any major drug problems (minus the one or two bad apples that ruin for all), Nascar doesnt have problems w/ drievers driving under the influence and putting other lives in danger, Nascar doesnt have problems w/ steriods. So how can u just throw away all the other problems that have plagued other series and say that NASCAR is worse than those sports or athletes.
9) You should be careful what you write. B/c when u write any article and publish it for the world people assume that you are intelligent on the issue you are discussing, when in this case you are CLEARLY NOT, and take you every word you say and believe, as is the case w/ this article and the responses that have proceeded mine, it to be 100% of the truth when I, a passionate nascar fan, can tell that 90% of your article is fake and falsified. And unfortunately, this as a human scares me. B/c, reading your article, not only upset and angered me, but it upset me enough to the point that it questioned my passions. And i can guarntee that i will not be the only one to take offense to this and respond w/ the corrections. So i beg of you to be careful and double check your facts when writing an article of this magnitude.
ps. Did you forget about Michael Vicks and his dogfighting?? B/c last time i checked he was the one serving the time, not any nascar drivers.
Is this writer serious? It is very easy to write a column as slanted as this when you do not know the sport. Yeah, Pacman just fought his bodyguard in a hotel, but lets focus on NASCAR. How many arrests have been made of NASCAR drivers in the last 25 years? Thats what I was thinking. The bogus points of this column do nothing but expose the ignorance if the writer and poke at the racial fires that we are all trying to get past. 2 white guys shove each other and its racial, ok. Ignorance, flat out ignorance. Is this actually by Stephen A?
Not anything like what DWil is trying to make all you believe. GET THE FACTS! This was the worst article I think I have ever read. Places, dates, incedents were inaccurate or outrite wrong. To insinuate that fighting goes on infinatly is insane.
Oh yeah, before you attack me, I am African American and things like this emabarass me. You should call big Al so you can get on TV.
Bravo Kate. Now those are some of the facts.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/11/sports/sp-nascar11
awb- that was one driver and when they found out about it, he was suspended indefinitely. i bet you can name a couple of other athletes who have been caught and not suspended indefinitely.
Yeah, totally agree Kate. Notice how the writer has not responded and will not respond. He is too busy google searching his own mistakes. This column is taking an everyday occurance that could have happened anywhere and trying to isolate it. I did not even try to correct all of the wrong statements in this story becasue it s almost comical how wrong it is. Hopefully it was meant to be funny
So his arguement is to show an article about 1 driver. Really strong stuff there awb, I hope that article in not your defense. When someone tries to speak intelligently on something they know nothing about, it just exposes them. I think the intern that wrote this is realizing how far reaching this blog was.
awb– That instance was handled more harshly than any other sport handles drug problems. Fike will never race in Nascar again, and don’t forget Shane Hmiel, how many pro football, baseball, basketball players have been given chance after chance after chance just because he is good for ticket sales? Nascar has had 2 drivers busted for using drugs. Not bad for being around for 60 years.
If you are going to print something you should have at least looked up the stats and race/fight locations to get them right. And not make up actions that did not happen to make your story more sensational. Sorta makes it sound like you made most of the story up.
I also missed your answer to the problem. How do you think we should get more minorities to race in Nascar? Maybe affirmative action? You mentioned Golf, maybe you should attack them for only having a couple minorities.
Then you mentioned that drivers involved in a fight should be arrested. So every NFL, NBA, and MLB player regardless of color should be arrested also correct? Although it is mostly a sport played by white men the NHL should also change the rules and have anyone in a fight arrested right? If not than that is discrimination.
So basicly what you have done is taken a very small incident and lied about what happend to make is sound bigger. Then you said because black men don’t become drivers that Nascar is racist. Then you said that Nascar drivers should be arrested if they get into a fight or shove each other or just say something that you don’t like.
Let me explain since you keep missing the point. On the issue of drug use, I only posted it because one of you fans brought it up to differentiate NASCAR from other sports. However, if they don’t test effectively or ignore the problem, than of course they don;’t have a drug problem.
As far as the fights, it didn’t take me long to find find fight videos, best fight lists, and fights we would like to see highlighting Dwil’s point that fighting in NASCAR is looked upon differently than it is in the NFL and NBA. Surely you can see that can’t you?
They do drug test in Nascar. They don’t do every driver b4 every race but then again they don’t do every NFL or NBA player b4 every game. So how can you compare the two. The latest move came to light after Ron Hornaday was found to be using a testosterone cream a few years ago but a reporter who wanted to make a name for himself decided it was important.. This would be like arresting someone for using one of those decongestant nose spays. They have steroids in them. Or your mother after menopauses for using the same type of medications. No this was not a Dig on your mother I am sure she is a very nice lady. If in a random a driver fails then you would hear about it but you don’t. Maybe Golf should start drug testing. Oh ya they do. And there are not many minorities in Golf so are they Rednecks too?
and for the record they are changing the drug policy next year so that they dont have any more problems.
awb
You are not familiar with NASCAR or racing, shouldnt you learn more before arguing your point. What do you mean fights are “treated differently”. I can send you an article on Pacman Jones who fought his own team appointed bodyguard last week and was on the field to lose last night. How about last night when the Dogers and Phillies throw at each other’s heads and clear the benches. Is that not part of baseball “culture”? So dont act like other leagues are better, because you really dont want to compare track records on of NASCAR vs other major sports.
I’m not all that sure what the author of this article was indending here.
“Because if they are punished as are black althletes” What world are you living in Sir, when athletes of all race are allowed special treatment under the law. This is by no means a race issue and your attempting to make it one is just plain and simple irresponsible on your part.
Your point was about fights (shoving matches) at a racetrack where there are LOTS of local law enforcement officers nearby, where I’m sure if Kevin Harvick or Carl Edwards wanted to they could press charges. Maybe you expected someone to whip out a pistol and go to shooting everyone nearby? I wont make an excuse for Harvick and Edwards, they do need to be punished. If NASCAR wants to sit them down and explain what will happen the next time something like this happens great. If they are reasonable people they will do as told by the governing body they both drive for weekly. If not sit them out for a race and you will hear Shell and whoever is on Edwards car this week talking to their drivers. Just like Home Depot did with Stewart a couple of years ago.
Most of us don’t think our professional sports athletes deserve special treatment. In fact I’d be happy to see any MLB player arrested for DUI when he is actually DUI. I don’t care what color they might be. If he breaks a law tough. The same goes for anyone anywhere, sports star, actor, politician, you or me.
Go find something else to do with your laptop Sir. This can’t be your day job…
First, I didn’t say they didn’t drug test. I said they didn’t drug test effectively.
Second, this whole post was about the fighting remember? Like I said, the point of this post was about how fighting in NASCAR (and hockey and baseball for that matter) is looked at and covered differently than in the NFL and NBA. Is Dwil wrong in that assessment?
Actually
baseball and NFL fights are covered the same way.
NASCAR and Hockey are not covered hardly at all.
and we can all agree that the last time a major fight broke out in the NBA, innocent people got jacked up by players who didn’t know who threw what at them so of course that’s covered differently. Otherwise all you see is highlights of Carmelo Anthony slapping at the back of some guy’s head and then backpedaling 45 ft to the other end of the court like a b*tch…
that’s more comic relief than fight…
Yes Dwil is wrong in his assesment.
I can send you an article on Pacman Jones who fought his own team appointed bodyguard last week and was on the field to lose last night. How about last night when the Dogers and Phillies throw at each other’s heads and clear the benches. Is that not part of baseball “culture”?
I can’t honestly believe how inaccurate this article is. Dude a little research and fact finding prior to writing an article of this type would be a wise decision. I can’t believe they allow moron’s like yourself to write such ariticles.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/columns/story?columnist=newton_david&id=3601018
From article: “When we came along, NASCAR was growing, and we had a few reporters and they did everything they could not to report the bad things,” Richard Petty said. “They were wanting to keep a job. They liked the racing, so they really, really helped us.”
On Drug Policy: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/news/story?id=3598973
The first thing that must be acknowledged is that NASCAR has been protected for years unlike many other sports. Now that is finally beginning to change. The second article is about the fact that NASCAR has never really had a drug policy and this one seems very weak.
The point here is that unlike other sports NASCAR past can’t really judged because it has never been monitored like other sports (thank you awb).. Again, it has been protected. Trying to say how “clean” NASCAR has been with regard to fights, drugs, and malfeasance is like saying in 1999 that baseball had no steroids problem because no players had been arrested for their possession. …Now welcome to the big-time boys and girls. What you call persecution, many of the other sports call standard operating procedure.
Other thoughts:
I am not a “passionate NASCAR fan” and can’t speak to the specific incidents, BUT I am a passionate media watcher and thus qualified to tell you that the critics of this article probably might be missing the bigger picture because they don’t spend too much time analyzing how the OTHER sports are characterized in relation to NASCAR. Because as NASCAR grows, it is probably getting a 10% taste of some of the other sports regularly get.
— When ESPN runs at least 8 separate articles about players SPEEDING TICKETS in 2008 as it regularly does with NBA athletes, then we can have a even-handed discussion.
– NBA basketball has the worst “perception” of fighting in sports yet it is documented each and every year to have the fewest fights of the team sports. This is a quantifiable fact. I think we know why this is.
– No, another Adam “Pacman” Jones link is unnecessary. As sports media watchers we already know that ESPN contributed no less than 383 articles on Pacman Jones this past year. That is more than one per day, and most did not deal directly on his game performance. Jones is an incredibly unnacomplished player in the NFL and should be a footnote to the sporting public. But no matter what Jones will receive a few hundred comments with many of them bigoted, whicj is the only reason he is relevant.
To Mikes question, I am afraid that the critics here have misunderstood the main point of the article, and have misdirected their ire. If you don’t like the scrutiny and the charges raised at NASCAR and you don’t care for the “admonishing tone” of the immorality within the sport, then I suggest you do this:
… Write to ESPN every single time they run an article on an NBA player with a traffic ticket… everytime an article emerges with Adam “Pacman Jones” sneezing … or how anytime a black athlete gets in trouble there is an automatic inference to an entire RACE that never happens when white athletes mess up.
Seriously, all you righteous media critics. Stand up and fight this terrible scrutiny that is plaguing our athletes today by our media. Because the criticism that NASCAR is receiving in this article is merely an tiny outgrowth of a broken media and a complicit public than never game two shits if this same exact article (time 1000) was written about the NBA, the NFL, or say, Barry Bonds. Today you just got a tiny little morsel of a taste of what it is like. And you are PIIIIIIISSED!!! It looks like to me, that the author did exactly what he intended to do.
Now go channel that energy and fight the big boys over at ESPN who reach a few million daily, instead of just a few thousand. I know that we can count on you.
JMSTRTS
The reason why I am not responding to your point about Pacman Jones is because as far as I can tell, his “fight’ with the bodyguard did not take place on the field, in the locker room or anywhere in their stadium. Nor did any dogfighting near as I can tell. Perhaps I read Dwil’s post incorrectly but I thought he was referring to fights/altercations that happen during or around the games or competition between athletes.
You are correct, it happened in the garage, which would be the equivalent to the locker room other sports. Again, I have to bring up that this was 2 guys pushing each other. No punches, no kicking etc.. There was 20 times the amount of shoving between LA and Philly in the basball game, in the middle of the field and in prime time. Does that count? Guess not
Mike
Thank you for the short novel, but the fact that you are “passionate media watcher” does not make you qualified to teach anyone anything. Do you have a badge or something. How self-important can you be?
DWIL - you are an idiot. Way to add fuel to an uneccesary fire. Articles like this one only promote the very racism that you are denouncing. I shouldn’t feel guilty for being white or liking Nascar, as anyone who isn’t white should feel guilty for not being so. There is nothing more saddening to me about raising my children in this world than knowing that this type of rhetoric is still present. What happened in the past is pathetic, no one - not no race - but NO ONE, should have had to endure racist times. But DWIL, I didn’t do that, nor did my ancestors nor will my decendents. So lay off and write something that promotes harmony rather than hatred. Then maybe this country, this world, can rest peacefully.
Also, you say the whole post is about fighting, yet the title is “NASCAR and the Chasm Between Black and White”. That is not simply about fighting my friend, that hints at something much bigger. The purpose of using a title like this to blow something out proportion. Come on, you have to realize that.
my issue was not w/ what the author was saying as so much as it was w/ how he presented it. if he had written a knowledgeable article, with facts that were correct and frankly the truth, then honestly i probably would have never found it. but my problem was that there were things brought up as facts that were not facts at all. they were twisted lies of the truth. THAT was my issue. i wasnt saying that race is not a problem; personally i think nascar has done a crappy job of diversifing itself but thats another issue. I’m not saying i like espn, b/c personally i think they do a crappy job of covering the races so i cant imagine what everything else is like. but i had a major problem w/ the things that were brought up that were false and with the fact that many people were reading what was written and believing them to be true when in reality they were distortions. and about the speeding tickets, nascar websites do print things about accidents that drivers have been invovled in whether they were good or bad. those may not have made it to espn’s homepage but there are other media outlets out there. and the drivers fights do get published on websites and in newspapers. and frankly 90% of the time that i see nascar on tv is when its making the news for something bad not for all the good that it does like the 43 plus different driver foundations that help many DIFFERENT kinds of people. so i wasnt fighting the issue of race i was fighting the issue of the truth behind the lies.
You don’t see the same type of behavior at NASCAR partially because there isn’t time. From the time the driver gets to a track on Thursday, he is practicing, qualifying, meeting umpteen sponsors and special guests, doing local video, radio commercial spots, etc. Include traveling time, the fact that the drivers families are there and you start to see that there isn’t much free time.
The other flip of the coin is that NASCAR has all the power. It is privately owned by one family and what that family says goes. Much different from other pro sports where the franchise owners have the power. So NASCAR is ruled with an iron fist.
Wouldn’t you think that with a sporting event that happens in only one spot week end and week out, with all the focus in one city that there would be more reports of bad behavior. The fact that there isn’t is incredible to me.
Are there examples of bad behavior: yes. But if you get the facts wrong and then claim racism, you are guilty of sensationalism.
Thank you Psece, that is perfectly worded. That should end the posts, the people defending this article seem to have a different objective in mind. They try to paint a picture that they wish was true without anything factual behind it.
JMSTRS,
Of course it is not just about fighting but rather how fighing in the respective sports leagues is covered by the MSN. In baseball, hockey and NASCAR it is viewd as athetes caught in the heat of competition or part of the game, in the NFL and NBA it is portrayed as a damning indictment on the character of the athelets involved and implicitly on black athletes as a whole.
And no one has necessarily refuted anything that was said by Dwil so far or addressed his main point.
so apparently u missed that REALLY long post a couple up in which i state which issues were brought up as fact but in reality werent.
and i wasnt responding on he point i was responding on the points were his was wrong. like when he said that carl edwards slammed kevin harvicks head into a hood. if you need the full story, check out the longest post (just saying it as a reference) to see what points Dwil was wrong on. b/c i pretty sure i refuted half of the “facts” he brought up.
Of course it is not just about fighting but rather how fighing in the respective sports leagues is covered by the MSN.
This article uses fighting, in a sport with less of it than any other major sport, only to bring race in to a NASCAR discussion. Not to mention that the writer did not even get the situations correct. You, nor the author even know what his main point is.There is plenty in the posts of people showing the many parts of this story that are not right. Which is why whoever this is writes in this little blog site. No one would even know this article existed if we were not directed here from an article on Yahoo that specifically points out all that it is wrong with this post.
kate–Come on over to From The Marbles it’s Yahoo’s nascar blog and join the fun. You would enjoy yourself.
kate - I was responding to multiple posts at the same time…
——–
JMSTRTS,
“This article uses fighting, in a sport with less of it than any other major sport, only to bring race in to a NASCAR discussion.”
By the type of media coverage NASCAR fighting gets vs. other sports — particularly fights with black athletes — race is already part of the discussion. To point out reality is not “bringing race into it”. Race was already there. If a doctor is diagnosing that you have cancer, they are not “bringing cancer into it”.
————–
Greg,
“I shouldn’t feel guilty for being white or liking Nascar, as anyone who isn’t white should feel guilty for not being so.”
Did anyone suggest that you feel guilty in this article? Nowhere did I read that.
“There is nothing more saddening to me about raising my children in this world than knowing that this type of rhetoric is still present.”
Since you are anti-media rhetoric, perhaps you will be a good soldier in combatting ESPN’s daily articles.
“So lay off and write something that promotes harmony”
Perhaps biased mainstream media’s biased sports coverage will just go away if it ’s existence is never actually pointed out, and more positive articles about NASCAR are written.
[…] One of my sworn missions at The Marbles — in addition to showing ridiculous pictures of drivers and making them say funny things — is to stamp out that kind of argumentative fallacy wherever it appears. And hoo boy, did it appear on Friday at Sports on My Mind, in a piece entitled "NASCAR and the Chasm Between Black and White." […]
Modi I am so glad you called people out on that nonsense.
I am so sick of folks who get off on the crap that they should feel guilty because someone points out racism.
No one is saying that they should feel guilty. Please with that garbage defense.
If you even casually watched NASCAR enough to be familiar with it, you can’t possibly subscribe to the notion that somehow drivers are treated differently bc of their color. First of all, it makes no sense. Apples and oranges, people. Week in and week out, you have, at best 50 athletes, competing. Compared to how many in the NBA, NFL? There is where you difference comes from. These people, their teams and their families spend 36 weeks in close confines with each other. It is unreasonable to expect that there would be no discord. But have you ever heard of an all out brawl that put fans in danger. No, you rarely hear of any altercations to suggest that they carry a pair. Once in a great while you hear about someone who got a really great punch in, and then it was broken up, and the guilty party is sent to the hauler for reprimands, and probably a fine, and probation. You never hear about huge punishments, because none of them are stupid enough to be repeat offenders.
NASCAR regulates behavior and it may not seem harsh enough to the outsider, but if you think that NASCAR driver’s are violent as a rule, it’s bc you aren’t educated in the sport and only see the played up hype that the media trolls love to splash across the headlines. NASCAR is a very tame sport, and with the recent addition of the COT, many times, dull. (note to Dwil..COT= Car of Tomorrow..don’t want you geting that wrong too)
Fact is, the spewing against NASCAR is racism itself…bc the non NASCAR folks believe we are all illiterate rednecks married to their sister’s baby.
To Hugs and all other posters who have reading comprehension difficulties:
THIS ARTICLE IS PRIMARILY A RESPONSE TO THE DISPARITY IN TREATMENT BY THE MEDIA TO NASCAR FIGHTS and FIGHTS OF SPORTS WHERE BLACK ATHLETES ARE INVOLVED.
Versus say the NBA, NASCAR athletes have it made when it comes to mass media coverage. This is an objective fact that can easily be quantified.
Will at least one of you critics admit this fact, or do you need examples of objective documentation?
Will at least one critic challenge this assumption, or do you just want to keep getting hung up on minutia?
Could at least ONE critic address the basic premise of the article?
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHN!
the reason nascar isnt not mentioned in the media as often w/ their fights is not a racial issue but is attributed to the fact that nascar just isnt covered like all the other sports are. unless you are from an area that has a high nascar fan population. living here in new york, there is next to no nascar coverage. go to espn and minus when things happen or on monday after a race nascar gets LITTLE COVERAGE!!! thats why its not in the media. thats why u never hear about the fights they have. b/c media outlets assume that most people dont want to hear about it even though it is 2nd or 1st biggest spectator sport. its not racial at all. its based on what espn and others assume people want to see. thats why u never hear about the problems that arise in nascar. but if you go to sites simply dedicated for nascar you do. and you hear about everything. every rumor, every fight, every punishment, EVERYTHING!!! u dont hear about it on espn unless u are watching nascar now or other nascar shows. and when there is a fight, it is given attention b/c unfortunately the only time nascar gets coverage is when something bad happens. if you want to ague about coverage, lets argue about the little coverage that nascar gets in areas not near “nascar country” b/c living in new york i get nothing and the only way i find stuff out is if i go online. does that “challenge this assumption”?
Hey, MODI. Here’s the problem: the intention of the article, as you stated it, and its execution are two very different things.
1. The article inaccurately presents the number and severity of NASCAR fights as a whole.
2. The article inaccurately represents the severity of the fights in context of the greater world of athletic confrontations.
3. The article inaccurately reported the details of the Harvick/Edwards fight, sensationalizing it to make it seem worse.
4. The article attacks the culture of NASCAR with only passing references to the “disparity in treatment” by the media.
5. The article gives ZERO specific examples of this “disparity.” If it’s so obvious, why aren’t there links aplenty showing samples of the biased media?
If you want to talk about disparity in media treatment, then do it. That’s a valuable and important topic, well worthy of discussion. But attacking NASCAR, its drivers, its fanbase, and other tangential issues does nothing but muddy the waters.
I can see the point DWil was trying to make buried in there, but it was he who got “hung up on minutiae” and took too many cheap shots at NASCAR’s culture rather than focusing on the institutions that cover it.
strill waiting foryou to respond dwil, or do you just know your an idiot.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am certainly not anti-media. I also may have taken this forum as an opportunity to go a bit further. You are correct, no where did you say I should feel guilty, you also did not say I shouldn’t. That said, I never voiced my approval of anything ESPN puts out nor did I request that Nascar should be exempt from crticism. You can type biased as many times as you’d like. But the reality is, if people like you, who have the opportunity to reach the amount of people you do, could, take your opportunity to promote kindness rather than fear, we’d all be better off. An example, recently I read where a young male shot and killed people in the Netherlands (I could be wrong on the location) and the reports state that he was motivated by Columbine. I agree this needs to be reported to an extent, but I grew up in a town where a student stood up, shot himself in the head in a classroom, and it wasn’t even on the evening news. It wasn’t glorified, it was a horrible loss of a young life, and it was left at that. So I ask, if the kid didn’t know about Columbine, would he have done what he did? If the children of today do not see the racism, does it exist? It is a part of our past, let’s put it there and leave it. There was a time women couldn’t vote, how moronic does that sound now.
If you had half a clue about what you are saying you would still be dangerously stupid !! To even remotely suggest that a fight in the NASCAR garage or on pit road or wherever it may occour is in any way related to the likes of an NFL all-star fighting dogs or a MLB player shooting steroids or any other professional athlete getting a DUI or beating his wife or being involved in a gang is outright STUPIDITY!!! In your opinion of how things in NASCAR should be run the NHL, NFL, MLB, or NBA would cease to exist under these same guidelines! Your mention of an incident involving Denny Hamlin, Brad Keselowski and their crews would be a school yard tussle compared to a bench clearing fight in Major League Baseball or even the NHL !! Race isn’t the issue stupidity is in all cases. Heaven forbid that anyone show any emotion while in the public eye of a major spots venue after all these athletes are under tremendous pressure week-in and week-out to perform at the highest level for the dollar jockeys that sponser their teams. Every other professional sport outside of hockey or golf has gone tho hell in a handbasket to the point that most people probably care less to watch any longer, the others that still do are either mindless sports drones with no mind of their own or they only watch to wait for the next tantrum or meltdown on the court or field. Racism is not a laughing matter in any way and i’b dare to bet that most people who use the term don’t even know the true meaning of it or the difference between racism, biggotry or prejudice? Do You?
I guess we can officially put Stephen A. in the “Uncle Tom” or “Uncle Ruckus” or “Step n’ Fetchit” category now since he has officially turned his back on his race.
Just to clarify DWil….
You say NASCAR and its fan base is essentially a bunch of “good-ol-boys” or racist rednecks? Isn’t that simply the purest definition of prejudice against every NASCAR fan? So which is worse? I’d love to hear the response to this one!!
First off, thanks to the Yahoo! Readers who came in here and just started slinging words without acknowledging the merits and legitimacy of some of the claims here. See the forest for the trees, people. You have done your points no service.
There is absolutely an issue with the treatment of minorities by NASCAR fans - witness interviews with Marc Davis, a budding star with Joe Gibbs Racing, where he won’t even describe the treatment he received at Hickory Motor Speedway in a lower series, since it was too nasty to revisit. At the time, he was sixteen. (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/columns/story?columnist=hinton_ed&id=3525586)
I was prepared to liken the modifications to the cars are little more than using a scuffed ball, a lineman with a slick jersey, or a receiver with stick’em. But upon some thought, the machines are the bodies of the athlete, and likening it to performance enhancements is the truth.
I would actually be surprised if many of the drivers themselves know the situations you described. The drivers tend to hail from the West Coast than from the SEC states. It has become such a high-cost venture that one of the most successful owners, Rick Hendrick once said “The way to have millions from racing is to start with billions.” As an added bonus, if you want to venture into Mr. Hendrick’s background as a pardoned felon, you will only find more fodder for your article on the character of the sport. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hendrick)
The last three paragraphs have the main points for summary in this incident -
“These men need year-long suspensions from racing. They need to be automatically dropped from their racing teams.”
The most immediate comparison I could think of was Steve Smith of the Panthers. In practice, he hits a teammate. A game suspension for team rules? Sure. A year long suspension from the league? I can’t see the NFL doing it, or the NFLPA allowing it. A one race suspension by either NASCAR or the team? It could be in line - and I am a Harvick fan. As for a full season, I don’t see it for a first offense. We’ll get to the reason why NASCAR would never take that drastic of a measure later.
“They need mandatory anger management classes. There needs to be a local law enforcement presence in every garage and all around the the pits and assault charges need to be pressed with each incident of a physical altercation.”
Absolutely. The fact that it doesn’t happen - in almost any sport, save for Auburn Hills - makes me shake my head at how much of a pass society gives to all athletes.
“The repeat offenders among these men need to spend some time in jail or prison and need to be banned for life from NASCAR.”
These are obviously two separate issues, between which court is judging them, and we are consigned to which one can happen, based on the above point not happening currently. If NASCAR - or any sport - sees a habitual repeat offender, some ban from the sport is in line. However, NASCAR’s “punishment” is often just to pull someone’s hard card.
This is tantamount to requiring a guy to get a hall pass. It means he cannot just enter the garage on Thursday night or Friday morning, he has to check at the NASCAR Officials trailer to get a “soft card” - or a day pass.
“Because if they are not punished as are black athletes, it means racism is alive and well and acted out in our faces each and every day in the world of sports; acted out in the garages and the halls of Brian France’s office; acted out on the courts and fields and in the offices of the commissioners of every major sports; acted out in the editorial offices of every editor and producer of sports news content in every corner of America.”
Breaking down this point -
* I think only the uneducated or those who turn a blind eye to the news would argue racism is not alive and well in the world of sports. No need to link to any articles - there are numerous well-documented cases on this site.
* To say racism is alive in the garages and Brian France’s office *because of this* is unfair. There are *plenty* of other reasons to argue that, but the only way I would argue NASCAR is racist in this example would be if they punished an African-American driver/crew member differently than they punished a white driver/crew member. Of course, you won’t get the opportunity to see if that is the case, since NASCAR has so few African-Americans involved.
* There is absolutely a racist slant to the editorial offices, fan bases, and producers between this coverage and coverage of incidents. Again, using the Steve Smith example, writers were extremely overly critical of him for punching a teammate, and few, if any, have done the same in this incident. You have well documented this point time and again. If your reference in saying “if they are not punished as are black athletes” is in the coverage and media/fan perception, then I absolutely agree with you. This serves as just one more case to point at for disproportionate coverage.
NASCAR, from where I sit, is naive and believes that the almighty dollar will sort things out. It believes that sponsors do not want to be associated with boorish, ill-tempered, childish, helmet swinging, punch throwing, official cursing, drug addled pampered “athletes”. To that end, they believe the teams will keep them in line to appease the sponsors who provide the dollars to keep the team in motion.
At the same time, NASCAR does not want to offend the sponsors, since there is an invariable double-dipping of resources. Look at the list of team sponsors (http://www.nascar.com/drivers/list/cup/dps/) and compare to the list of official NASCAR sponsors (http://www.nascar.com/guides/sponsors/) - see any conflicts?
Furthermore, the France family is the primary owner of the International Speedway Corp - which owns some of the major tracks, such as Daytona, California, Chicagoland, Kansas, etc. Numerous official sponsors of the tracks are also car sponsors (http://daytonainternationalspeedway.com/track%5Finfo/official%5Fsponsors/)
So if Tony Stewart swings at an official… and NASCAR threatens to suspend him… and Home Depot makes a call whispering “We pay you $xx million dollars and that’s our guy”… and Tony Stewart is at the track the next week, winning no less… well, to call this a conflict of interest is an understatement.
To the same extent, and for the same reasons, they have historically dropped the ball on drug testing. NASCAR’s policy was only to test in cases of reasonable suspicion. They stated this was an issue for the owners. However, those same owners are the ones chasing those sponsor dollars and needing to deliver photogenic results.
Now, the popular, talented, handsome, well-spoken driver popping greenies on Friday afternoon seems like “not that big of a deal” since his sponsor has ponied up $20 mill a year to plaster his face and name across their advertisements. Maybe the up-and-coming talent has a fondness for marijuana since it helps him calm his nerves standing on the biggest stage of his life’s dream, and the owner doesn’t ask questions, since all he cares is the kid is the Next Big Thing and he cannot lose another one. Those are but two examples of rumors - unsubstantiated, but plausible - that have occurred. And suddenly, there isn’t a hole in the policy, but a broken dam to let through “yeah, but”… Other commenters have yelped that NASCAR has instituted a testing plan for next year - but it is a questionable one where they haven’t said what drugs are banned, or what the punishments will be.
NASCAR is the little sport that could which got “all growed up”. Brian France, idiot that he is, still cannot see that.
Note: Apologies if this is a double-post. I resubmitted since it did not appear.
First off, thanks to the Yahoo! Readers who came in here and just started slinging words without acknowledging the merits and legitimacy of some of the claims here. See the forest for the trees, people. You have done your points no service.
There is absolutely an issue with the treatment of minorities by NASCAR fans - witness interviews with Marc Davis, a budding star with Joe Gibbs Racing, where he won’t even describe the treatment he received at Hickory Motor Speedway in a lower series, since it was too nasty to revisit. At the time, he was sixteen. (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/columns/story?columnist=hinton_ed&id=3525586)
I was prepared to liken the modifications to the cars are little more than using a scuffed ball, a lineman with a slick jersey, or a receiver with stick’em. But upon some thought, the machines are the bodies of the athlete, and likening it to performance enhancements is the truth.
I would actually be surprised if many of the drivers themselves know the situations you described. The drivers tend to hail from the West Coast than from the SEC states. It has become such a high-cost venture that one of the most successful owners, Rick Hendrick once said “The way to have millions from racing is to start with billions.” As an added bonus, if you want to venture into Mr. Hendrick’s background as a pardoned felon, you will only find more fodder for your article on the character of the sport. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hendrick)
The last three paragraphs have the main points for summary in this incident -
“These men need year-long suspensions from racing. They need to be automatically dropped from their racing teams.”
The most immediate comparison I could think of was Steve Smith of the Panthers. In practice, he hits a teammate. A game suspension for team rules? Sure. A year long suspension from the league? I can’t see the NFL doing it, or the NFLPA allowing it. A one race suspension by either NASCAR or the team? It could be in line - and I am a Harvick fan. As for a full season, I don’t see it for a first offense. We’ll get to the reason why NASCAR would never take that drastic of a measure later.
“They need mandatory anger management classes. There needs to be a local law enforcement presence in every garage and all around the the pits and assault charges need to be pressed with each incident of a physical altercation.”
Absolutely. The fact that it doesn’t happen - in almost any sport, save for Auburn Hills - makes me shake my head at how much of a pass society gives to all athletes.
“The repeat offenders among these men need to spend some time in jail or prison and need to be banned for life from NASCAR.”
These are obviously two separate issues, between which court is judging them, and we are consigned to which one can happen, based on the above point not happening currently. If NASCAR - or any sport - sees a habitual repeat offender, some ban from the sport is in line. However, NASCAR’s “punishment” is often just to pull someone’s hard card.
This is tantamount to requiring a guy to get a hall pass. It means he cannot just enter the garage on Thursday night or Friday morning, he has to check at the NASCAR Officials trailer to get a “soft card” - or a day pass.
“Because if they are not punished as are black athletes, it means racism is alive and well and acted out in our faces each and every day in the world of sports; acted out in the garages and the halls of Brian France’s office; acted out on the courts and fields and in the offices of the commissioners of every major sports; acted out in the editorial offices of every editor and producer of sports news content in every corner of America.”
Breaking down this point -
* I think only the uneducated or those who turn a blind eye to the news would argue racism is not alive and well in the world of sports. No need to link to any articles - there are numerous well-documented cases on this site.
* To say racism is alive in the garages and Brian France’s office *because of this* is unfair. There are *plenty* of other reasons to argue that, but the only way I would argue NASCAR is racist in this example would be if they punished an African-American driver/crew member differently than they punished a white driver/crew member. Of course, you won’t get the opportunity to see if that is the case, since NASCAR has so few African-Americans involved.
* There is absolutely a racist slant to the editorial offices, fan bases, and producers between this coverage and coverage of incidents. Again, using the Steve Smith example, writers were extremely overly critical of him for punching a teammate, and few, if any, have done the same in this incident. You have well documented this point time and again. If your reference in saying “if they are not punished as are black athletes” is in the coverage and media/fan perception, then I absolutely agree with you. This serves as just one more case to point at for disproportionate coverage.
NASCAR, from where I sit, is naive and believes that the almighty dollar will sort things out. It believes that sponsors do not want to be associated with boorish, ill-tempered, childish, helmet swinging, punch throwing, official cursing, drug addled pampered “athletes”. To that end, they believe the teams will keep them in line to appease the sponsors who provide the dollars to keep the team in motion.
At the same time, NASCAR does not want to offend the sponsors, since there is an invariable double-dipping of resources. Look at the list of team sponsors (http://www.nascar.com/drivers/list/cup/dps/) and compare to the list of official NASCAR sponsors (http://www.nascar.com/guides/sponsors/) - see any conflicts?
Furthermore, the France family is the primary owner of the International Speedway Corp - which owns some of the major tracks, such as Daytona, California, Chicagoland, Kansas, etc. Numerous official sponsors of the tracks are also car sponsors (http://daytonainternationalspeedway.com/track%5Finfo/official%5Fsponsors/)
So if Tony Stewart swings at an official… and NASCAR threatens to suspend him… and Home Depot makes a call whispering “We pay you $xx million dollars and that’s our guy”… and Tony Stewart is at the track the next week, winning no less… well, to call this a conflict of interest is an understatement.
To the same extent, and for the same reasons, they have historically dropped the ball on drug testing. NASCAR’s policy was only to test in cases of reasonable suspicion. They stated this was an issue for the owners. However, those same owners are the ones chasing those sponsor dollars and needing to deliver photogenic results.
Now, the popular, talented, handsome, well-spoken driver popping greenies on Friday afternoon seems like “not that big of a deal” since his sponsor has ponied up $20 mill a year to plaster his face and name across their advertisements. Maybe the up-and-coming talent has a fondness for marijuana since it helps him calm his nerves standing on the biggest stage of his life’s dream, and the owner doesn’t ask questions, since all he cares is the kid is the Next Big Thing and he cannot lose another one. Those are but two examples of rumors - unsubstantiated, but plausible - that have occurred. And suddenly, there isn’t a hole in the policy, but a broken dam to let through “yeah, but”… Other commenters have yelped that NASCAR has instituted a testing plan for next year - but it is a questionable one where they haven’t said what drugs are banned, or what the punishments will be.
NASCAR is the little sport that could which got “all growed up”. Brian France, idiot that he is, still cannot see that.
This article, if you can call it that is way off base. I understand that there is a race factor in our country today. I can’t stand that people are so shallow to judge a person based on the color of their skin and pigeion hole them. Like wise to lump all NASCAR drivers as just a bunch of good ol’ boys who know where some weed is at, a maybe a meth lab with a still, is proposterous. Let me ask an aftican american NBA player where the nearest crack house is at, or what the going rate of wefare is these days, and I would be out of line. Next time, before you post something, write it based on facts. You see, there are people just like Dwil, who won’t take the time to find out what the truth his. Half-truths are also half-lies. And a lie, is a lie, is as lie.
Dwil,
Harvick and Edwards got into a shoving match. Nary a puch was thrown. And Harvick’s head was not shoved into the hood of the car, rather, Edwards was shoved backward into it. This was a small skirmish no different than any other shoving matches we’ve seen in other sport confrontations. You’ve blown the situation out of proportion to serve an agenda, and in the process, making it into something it is not. Shame on you. You are better than that.
In the future, please actually find out that the FACTS are before spouting your inane diatribe with absolutely no basis in reality. You should be writing for the Drudge report or even FOX News with your utter inability to present the facts as they are. Your facts are so out of whack that on the few you do get right, you can’t even put them in the right sequence.
As far as the “relaxing the rules” part goes, that was a direct reference to COMMENTS made by drivers and team members, not fighting. If you actually read the official statement made regarding this, you’d have known that. Then again, you clearly misrepresented the facts to fit your preconceived notion.
By your idiotic logic, a fight between John Smoltz and J.D. Drew after Drew was hit by a pitch would be racist. That’s the type os irresponsible advocacy that needs to be stamped out immediately, because that type of ignorance is far more dangerous than Harvick and Edwards getting into a fight following a race.
Maybe DWil is a fake weatherman turned wanabe Nascar superstar……
STFU. You go and vote for Obama and I’ll go vote for McCain, But I (being white) will be labeled as a racist. Abe Lincoln was right when he said whites and blacks could never live together. He should’ve sent all of you to Liberia. A country for blacks run by blacks.
hey dwil, i find your ignorance astounding. the story you have written here is quite a piece of race baiting garbage. you should really do some fact checking before you go off on a rant about sh%$ you know nothing about. the story is filled with half truths and outright lies. but i guess thats how a no talent hack gets noticed. almost eveything you wrote can be proven wrong. i would debate you about this but you probably wouldn’t even talk to me about it because i may not be sofisticated enough for you to even acknowlege. i do like nascar and country music and according to you i’m some sort of inbred rube who can’t find his ass with both hands. please email me and prove me wrong that you are nothing but a race baiting hack. please, i would love to hear from you sir.
Can you give me some insight on how it feels to wake up each and every morning knowing just how moronic you are?
Well done by the late responders to show such insight and witful responses.
Every chance you get to play the race card huh? You are right bro, OJ didn’t do it….
No. 1 your dates and facts are wrong. Do a liitle fact finding before posting.You look like an idiot.NASCAR has and always will be one of the cleanest sports in this country.Home run records went down due to steriods, and up until a few years ago, football was played hopped on anabolics. Nooo, nobody else cheats. Just NASCAR drivers. Look all athletes fight at one point. The difference is that most of NASCAR’s “fights” happen behind closed doors, where as baseball, basketball, and football, and hockey, etc. happen on the playing field. I didn’t see David Stern get between Kobe and Shaq when they had their tit tat. Did you??
As far has France loosening rules: Drivers were tired of having to keep their mouth shut when something happened on/off the track for fear of fines and points deductions. How many times is and NFL player or MLB player fined or suspended for showing emotion. 0. Thats how many.Only when the altercation gets physically dangerous do the commisioners of their respective sport open their mouths.So until such time that you advocate for higher policing of altercations in the NBA and every other sport, I suggest that you keep your uninformed nose out of NASCAR. By the way, when was the last time any major sport BANNED someone for drug use?? Oh thats right, NASCAR IS THE ONLY SPORT to due that in recent memory.
I find the “ignorance astounding” in so many of these responses. I lack the time and inclination to address many of the “intellectual points” that I would in another tone of conversation. So I will only address the author of the Yahoo article:
Jay,
I read your response article to D-Wil at Yahoo and found many many problems with it, many that I can punch intellectual holes in with ease. Pointing out any factual errors are all fine and dandy, but my overarching issue with it is that your article made no honest or sincere reach-out at any racial understanding on what the authors intent was. — You stated that D-Wil “makes some very important points in his article”, but make no attempt to elaborate on what those points might be. Your opening title and paragraph suggested that you might take a different approach — right before you didn’t… In short, I found your article to have a disingenuous quality to it.
I should also point out YOUR responsibilty when discussing matters of race. In your article you point out the example that McCain is not responsible for those who shout “kill him”, but such an analysis is simplistic to say the least. No, there is no DIRECT responsibility, but as a leader McCain does, in fact, create a climate where such shouts and rowdy crowds might flourish. It is no stunning coincidence that the McCain crowds displayed more nastiness, bigotry, and danger AFTER McCain-Palin deliberately changed the tone of their campaign. I think that you can understand this distinction.
Just the same, I am afraid that your article — which chose snark and potshots over any attempt at understanding — helped to foster some of the responses in this comment section. And I would suggest that you reflect on the climate that you created that might make people feel that they could just drop in on this website and write some of the crap that I’m reading. In the very kindest of assessments, your article was racially irresponsible — the very thing that you claim to be fighting against.
Are you the same as this poster Clark (see 7:18 am)? No, that is not what I’m saying. But your article has helped to empower him with balls big enough to type that shit — whether you want to admit it or not (I am sure that you don’t).
In summary, you state in your article: “There is important, rational dialogue that has to take place about racism in NASCAR”. I wonder when that important conversation will take place? I wonder if your readers will accept that conversation, the way they accepted this last response piece that you wrote.
If you need any data for it on racial disparities in coverage, I will be happy to send you many links for your research purposes before you write that important “Racism in NASCAR piece”. I will be waiting with bated breath.
You can breathe now, MODI. We’re running a piece later this week on Yahoo! that has an in-depth discussion with Brad Daugherty about the role of race in NASCAR. And we’ve had several other pieces over the last few months that have treated the subject with dignity, respect, and an awareness that a problem does exist.
And enough with the whole “I can punch holes in your argument with ease” big-talking nonsense. When you’re talking matters of racial treatment in the media, NOBODY has absolute authority, everyone’s argument is based on individual perception. Which makes stating the facts, as they are, such an important element of any such discussion. DWil overstated, sensationalized, and conflated facts, and that’s what I took issue with.
Now, to address your specific point:
“And I would suggest that you reflect on the climate that you created that might make people feel that they could just drop in on this website and write some of the crap that I’m reading. In the very kindest of assessments, your article was racially irresponsible — the very thing that you claim to be fighting against.”
Racially irresponsible? Really, MODI? In responding to an article that uses the phrases “white boys” and “white NASCAR writers” in as derogatory a fashion as possible? Criticize my style and methods all you like, but please don’t draw yet another racial line in the sand. That’s what got this entire thing started in the first place.
It’s the Internet, MODI. If someone’s going to put out poorly researched, overly sensationalized work — a flaw in this post that you’ve conveniently ignored — they shouldn’t be surprised when they’re called out on it.
I will readily admit that people can take things too far, and I’ll also go so far as to say that my post contributed to that by linking to your site. However, I wasn’t rabble-rousing; if you go back and read my introduction, I stressed respect for DWil and an awareness that a problem does exist. (I offered him an opportunity to respond, but haven’t yet heard from him.) As I’m sure you can imagine, there are a hundred ways I could have been more inflammatory, but very consciously chose to focus on the post at hand.
I have no intention of ignoring the race topic or hoping it will go away. I don’t expect everyone to have read my posts, but I’ve taken on the issues of gays in NASCAR, sexism, racism, and other topics that run counter to the stereotypical NASCAR worldview, and I’ve pissed off my “base” while doing so. I’ve got no interest in pandering; I appreciate differing perspectives, and I’d welcome your thoughts, links, and ideas on the race issue. I’m at nascarmarbles@yahoo.com anytime.
Best,
Jay
How many times do you see baseball players running on the field? How many times to hockey players get into shoving matches? How many blantant facemasks do you see throughout the football season? Even if your “facts” are correct, the incidents are still in the single digits for a sport that almost goes year round. Secondly, since you played the race card, would you like to see Michael Vick back in the NFL? Or let’s go old school. OJ Simpson, recently convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping? Pacman Jones is given a second chance and he fights with his own babysitter? Maybe, just maybe you should stick to issues that are relevant instead of fanning the flames of hatred.
MODI
You are absolutely ignorant. Lets take racism out of it for a second. As Jay says, the article above uses tems like “white boy” etc, are you saying that this is racially responsible? I am proud of you for having great vocabulary, but you have nothing to back up your simple assesment. I am sure you could give me plenty of links regarding racial disparity, and I could give you the same number of links to garbage articles like this who’s sole intention is the fan the fires of race. The only people who are defending the writer are the ones who have no idea of NASCAR and its culture. All the commments sound like they are based on stories you heard or sensationalized fluff like whats above. You keep on fighting the good fight, but try to have some facts about the arena of the discussion, which is NASCAR.
The person who wrote that article and articles like that are one of the main reasons racism still lives on in America. He needs to make a name for himself so he picks a topic that touches all of us as Americans. We made mistakes as a young country and we still make mistakes but that is part of what makes this country the BEST in the world. To say that NASCAR is racist and I am and the people that fly the Rebel Flag are racist is just plain STUPID. Black people as all people tend to follow or participate in things they like to do so stop saying this sport or that sport is racist because it does not allow black people to participate. The owners of race cars look for one thing winners if you can drive fast safe and win my guess is they would not care if you were black, white, grey, purple or see through because owners see one color green as in MONEY.
Dwil, Read some of these comments, got the feeling that a Palin rally just ended, and the attendees got access to a computer. Now, that’s a group that knows a thing or two about fanning the flames of hate.
If you left it up to white folks (most) to find an instance of modern day racism, they would say none exist. So can their opinion be of any value? Fuck no!
Jay,
As far as points directly related to D-Wil’s article, the “white” references never personally offended my own white sensibilities. I understood them within their context. As for other points in the article, I will let D-Wil speak for himself. I know that he has been quite busy this week and he will address soon enough.
I don’t claim any “absolute authority” on race at all, but having studied the media — particularly ESPN — on a daily basis, having quantified the number of articles it spends on black athletes, having noticed the skipped coverage on white athletes, I do consider myself a bit of an authority on sports media reaction to white vs. black athletes (predominantly ESPN) . Not because of any super-insightful powers, but because I know how to count and compare, and will actually spend the time to do so where others would find such analysis too tedious. D-Wil has done the same on countless occasions.
You state: “I will readily admit that people can take things too far, and I’ll also go so far as to say that my post contributed to that by linking to your site.”
This is inaccurate. People link to the site all the time — even on some very controversial topics. But the nature of the traffic almost always follows the nature of how the article is framed. Frame a response in a completely one-sided and snarky manner, and all the responders will follow suit — but worse. So linking to the article is not the problem. Had your post been limited to merely critiquing factual errors, then more of the commenters would have resembled something similar to Kate’s reaction. But the piece was more than that, and the commenters took it to a whole other level. (Your opening introduction was fine, but the body did not mirror the spirit of that introduction.)
I may very well send you some more links & info off-line rather than keep going back and forth.
———————————
Note to other critics: If you begin any discussion with an insulting statement, if your randomly bring up misbehaving black athletes that have been heard 1000 times before, and if you somehow believe that racism still exists in America because of “articles like this one” — there will be no response.
This writer couldn’t be more off base. In reading, his arguments seem so rediculous that I though this article a spoof. There are weekly on ice scuffles in hockey and basket-ball, but a Nascar fight comes along once in a blue moon. DUI’s and scandals are a monthly occurence with the stick and ball sports but such an occurence in NASCAR would be at best yearly.
A Basket-ball player or hockey player gets a few minutes or a penalty shot, but you argue that NASCAR drivers should be banned and jailed? How is this equal? In your example the black players get a fine and the white players go away for 2-5.
As there are demographic trends in basket-ball, hockey and foot-ball so are there in NASCAR. If you want to make a big deal of the demographic make-up of the garage, then you should also be making one of the basket-ball line-up, the hockey rink and the final for the 100m sprint.
Not only have they not read the article, they don’t watch coverage of other sports.
MODI, you’ll note I reprinted DWil’s article in its entirety, and didn’t cherry-pick the pieces that best fit my own thesis. People can and did disagree with my take on it. I’m not sure they’re as easily manipulatable as you’re implying; it’s possible many simply had a negative reaction to the article.
But anyway. let’s continue this conversation somewhere down the line. We’ve pretty much exhausted this post for now.
Has anyone happened to watch any NFL games this season? The little shoving matches after several plays actually kind of resemble some of the “fights” you see in NASCAR (they’re sometimes worse), yet they might get a few yard penalty for them. My fantasy team would suck if all of the players involved in those disputes were sent to jail like this article suggests for the drivers…..
Besides the fact that the quotes below stem from factual errors, let’s even take what he had used as his “evidence”, shall we?
At the end of the first section of this article, “… and another JR Motorsports crew member, were all suspended and fined after an altercation at the famous speedway.”
So, they do suspend and take action when altercations happen.
“Todd Bodine was penalized after a fight in New Hampshire.”
Hmm… action taken there too. Maybe this precious bit:
“Smoke Stewart has been in one more altercation (two) than he has wins (one) this season; and that win - at the most recent NASCAR Chase race at Talledega (the AMP Energy 500) - was a gift from NASCAR officials. Stewart has been fined so many times in his career for physical altercations and verbally abusing everyone from fans to officials that these incidents have become a running joke among NASCAR drivers and aficionados.”
Despite the fact that it was not a “gift” by NASCAR officials, since Tony won that race according to the rules, it’s pointed out CLEARLY that NASCAR has fined and taken the offending drivers to task over their altercations. As a matter in fact, according to the clueless diatribe, this has happened SO OFTEN, THIS FINING AND SUCH, that it’s become a joke. Well, that would leave me to believe that NASCAR is paying attention, levying fines (which, by the way, at 25k a pop or more, and race suspensions which cost the driver up to a million bucks in cash) that may not be curbing the drivers ‘aggresion’, but that is the drivers’ choice. When you’re taking your life in your hands and someone puts you into a wall at 200 miles an hour, that’s a whole lot different than some basketball player getting elbowed and falling down. These whiny ‘pro’ athletes that get in fights over comments like ‘your momma’ are clearly in a different position than drivers who risk their lives at 200 miles an hour.
So, the “spirit” of the article that NASCAR is racist because Harvick shoved Edwards???? Are you kidding me?
In football, it’s called “unsportsmanlike conduct” and they get a 15 yard penalty.
In basketball, it’s a “technical foul”. 2 free throws please.
In baseball, it usually escalates into a bench clearing incident.
In hockey, if the ref didn’t see it, it’s not even worthy of commenting, but if the player retaliates, he gets 2 minutes in the box.
So, as for your “The repeat offenders among these men need to spend some time in jail or prison and need to be banned for life from NASCAR.”, you, sir, are full of sh*t that you obviously stirred like tea leaves to get your facts. This had to have been one of the most one sided, ignorant, racist, and clueless articles I’ve ever (unfortunately) had the misfortune to read. But I’ll say this. As soon as “racists” see that white folk aren’t so bad after all, they’ll take ANYTHING to blow it out of proportion and MAKE it an issue. This was one man shoving another, and instead of you taking like a man like Edwards did, and solving between the two of them like Harvick did, like men, you wrote about it like some whiny racist that wants to see “better standards” from NASCAR.
Oh, you can’t do drugs at 200 miles an hour. Your hands are full. And, you can’t do drugs when you spend all day in a firesuit.
But we’ll save drugs and nascar for some incredibly inept post you’ll bring up later.
MODI, thank you for your posts, at least you sent them in intelligently. As for the Author, not so much. He really should’ve done his homework first.
i understand where you all are coming from when you are talking about the different penalties/coverage/etc of black athletes vs white athletes. i personally am learning about diversity everyday in my one of my education classes called Diversity in Education. in my class, we read about white privlege and white dominance every nite and have honest discussions in class when the class meets. however, where i feel a problem arises is which sports you choose to discuss. i believe that the point would be better understood and viewed through the lens of how white athletes are punished in their respective sports vs how black athletes are punished in their respec