NBA Linkin’ Park: 5 Players You Forgot About
August 6, 2008
Kermit Washington’s Remarkable Redemption - The Starting Five: It is long past time to forget “The Punch”. In 1994, Washington took a trip to Rwanda to see how he could help out post-genocide. He has been doing tremendous work ever since. Also, listen to Washington give an unfiltered assessment of the Ron Artest you might not know.
Shawn Kemp Confirms Rumors - SLAM Online: The last time you saw him, he was looking a little hefty dragging himself down the court. In this video a 38 year old Kemp looks like he is back close to his “Reign Man” weight and will be playing in Italy this year — perhaps to fill the giant void left by Danilo Gallinari.
Earl Boykins Latest to Go Overseas - Yahoo: Boykins is also heading to Italy, but unlike Kemp he will become Italy’s highest paid player at 3.5 mil for one year. Boykins is one of my favorites as what is mot to like about a guy 5′5″ and 130 soaking wet. Given his slight build, I give Boykins the nod over Mugsy Bogues as the NBA’s all-time best feel-good-you-can-achieve-anything-underdog stories.
The Status of Greg Oden - TrueHoop: Admit it, you kind sorta forgot about him when you were trying to decide if Michael Beasley, Derrick Rose, or OJ Mayo would win next year’s Rookie of the Year award. Oden is coming along slowly but surely. Great anecdote here how he basically knocks out his coach Nate McMillan. Also, for those who don’t know, back in February, Oden publicly endorsed Barack Obama. In other words, I’m liking Oden’s game thus far on and off the court. Usually it’s a choice! (see Etan Thomas & Ira Newble).
MJ is Still at It! - HoopsVibe! You might not have forgot about the man, but forgot that he’s still playing sort of… He says it would be “no contest” against Kobe if he was in his prime. What’s also interesting about the video is that ultra-competitive MJ won’t take it easy no matter if an 18 or 8 year old is guarding him.
Bonus - Basketbawful: Okay, you haven’t forgot about Baron Davis and Steve Nash, but this video is funny!
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40 Responses to “NBA Linkin’ Park: 5 Players You Forgot About”
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Jackass Jordan’s got it right about one thing. It WOULDN’T be a contest alright…..
Kev,
I know Kobe’s your boy, and I know it’s hard to set aside Jordan’s politics (although, to be fair, Kobe ain’t no Malcolm X either!), but you don’t think that Jordan in his prime could bust Kobe?
I mean, wasn’t Jordan stronger, even MORE athletic, and with a mid-range/post game that would’ve given Kobe fits? Didn’t Jordan simply WILL himself and his team to victories that Kobe - with a few notable exceptions - hasn’t been able to do? And wouldn’t all that be enough for a game of one-on-one?
I’m just saying, Jordan is no doubt an asshole, but dude could play…
The Kobe who lit up the Raptors for 81 and willed the Lakers to the playoffs by averaging 40 points could hang with Mike although I’m not sure he would have beat him. The kinder, gentler Kobe of last year would get eaten alive.
I think Jordan’s post game would have been problematic for Kobe. At the same time, I think Jordan was a bit of an overrated defender. The refs looked away a hell of a lot for Mike.
It’s hard for me to pick anyone beating Mike in his prime, but I think Kobe comes the closest (Bron is ascending to the top spot in the league, but just isn’t a good enough shooter or defender).
Also, Jordan’s teams got their asses busted by the Celts, Pistons, etc plenty of times before they broke through. I like the current Laker squad, but Kobe has yet to have a Pippen. And people forget just how valuable Kobe was in the Lakers 3 rings in the Shaq era. Without him, there is just no way we beat the Kings, Blazers, or Spurs who all had the size to go head with the Diesel. If scoring 81 in a game isn’t willing a team to victory I really don’t know what is.
I mean, come on LastP, he got a team with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker into the playoffs. You gotta give the brother something for that.
Correction - a team with Kwame and Smush in the STARTING LINE-UP into the playoffs.
LP
Kobe IS my boy, that ain’t no secret. But despite my obvious bias, I am pretty confident that Kobe would have beaten MJ. Mj’s post game WOULD give Kobe fits, but as Shon pointed out, MJ was extremely over-rated as a defender. Kobe would have killed him on the perimeter and would have given Jordan more trouble as a defender than Jordan would have given him. People need to keep in mind the size and athleticism of the dudes guarding MJ v. those guarding Kobe. It’s not even close. And Jordan got love from the refs that was simply absurd.
Shon, Dude took a team starting Kwame, Smush AND Luke to the playoffs! I do agree with you that Kobe wasn’t aggressive enough last season, especially in the Finals where he allowed Boston’s soft zone to trick him into passing good looks and into passing into defenders clogging the passing lanes. Dude should have simple elevated his ass off until they proved they could stop it.
Additionally
I wonder how Jordan would do defending the post against Kobe. Jordan was a better leaper and perhaps stronger than Kobe, but Kobe is faster and has much better balance than MJ. And as good as the Jordan’s footwork were, Kobe’s is simply the best, by far, the game has ever seen. Kobe is a much better shooter than Jordan with a MUCH longer range and unlike Jordan, who was pedestrian when going left, Kobe is probably the best non PG in history at going to his off hand.
In short, I think Kobe’s game was simply too refined and skilled for Jordan to handle and the myth-making that went into defining Jordan as a better competitor is simply ESPN bullshit.
Kevdog, Shon, “but as Shon pointed out, MJ was extremely over-rated as a defender.”
You brothas out your mind, Mike was a lock down defender, he won defensive player of the year award. That’s not a political award, not like MVP. Artest, Rodman, Mutombo, BWallace, cats like these get defensive awards, for Mike to get it, the brotha erned it.
Now as to who would win in one-on-one in their prime, shit it’s a toss-up, with a slight edge to Kobe. Kobe got more refined skills. Kobe got a better 3 ball that Mike would have to respect, by Kobe being the better ballhandler he would blow right by Mike to the hoop.
Mike being the smart ball player and with his upper body strength , he would take Kobe in the paint and punish his ass. It would come down to who had the last shot. If I had to put up money on the outcome, I’d put on Kobe.
On a different note, good to see Earl Boykins get paid in europe. Best little man to ever play.
Kev,
I know how you feel about Kobe, but i gotta goe with MJ with the primary difference being shot selection;
MJ shot 50% for his career and over 53% during his “prime 5 year stretch”
Kobe is a career .453 shooter and in his very best season, he shot .469. This is just a HUGE gap.
Now SOME of this disparity can be chalked up to superior defenses, but that can be controlled for against the league average and you still have a big gap. IMO, Kobe has all of MJ’s talent and “will-to-win” but MJ simply took better shots.
Imhotep Earl Boykins is the best little man to ever play? Are we talking sub 6-footer’s? Because if we are Nate Archibald and Isiah Thomas would like a word.
MODI - I agree. While Kobe has range, I think his shot selection can still leave something to be desired.
Imhotep - Gotta disagree man. I don’t think Jordan was a lock down defender. Pippen was always the guy checking the other team’s best guy. No love for shutting down Byron Russell.
Shon, Kev
I did say there were some “notable exceptions” which do demonstrate Kobe’s “will to win.” Scoring 81 against the Raptors isn’t one of them, in my opinion, but taking Kwame, Smush, and Luke to the playoffs is!
Also, to say that Jordan got busted by the Celts and Pistons is one thing. But no team busted MJ’s ass in his prime - and that’s what we’re talking about here. MJ had the entire L on lock for 3 + 3 of his prime years (I say “3 + 3″ in order to acknowledge the 1 1/2 years of his first retirement in between, which also occured during his prime). Kobe, on the other hand, is in his prime right now, but so far hasn’t won shit except an overdue MVP beauty pageant. There is a difference.
Finally, I say Gasol is the closest thing that Kobe will get to a Pippen-type player. Not that Gasol brings the same skill set to the table, of course not. But Gasol’s skill set compliments Kobe the way Pippen’s complimented Jordan - you’d have to agree with that, don’t you?
LastP - I definitely think Gasol compliments Kobe. Given that they have only played together for half of one season I thought people rained down on that duo a bit too fast although it was hard not to after the meltdown in the Finals.
But, I really think where we are all disagreeing is the thought of Kobe’s prime. The optimist in me wants to believe that Kobe is still in his prime. But, a big part of me thinks he was in his prime with Shaq and hit his peak in the two years before while he was stuck with the shitty line-up. He’s still the best in the game today, but I think the window is closing and Lebron, Paul, or someone will overtake him in the next year or so. Not to say he won’t get another ring, but I didn’t see the same guy on the floor last year and that was a good and bad thing.
Iverson wants to be included in that best little man ever discussion as well.
Y’all are underrating Mike on defense. Don’t act like Kobe was the main cat guarding the other team’s best player in the NBA. Even when he ran with Shaq they liked to put Fox or Fisher on the best scoring guard.
I think Kobe’s defense is the most overrated part of his game.
Big Man - I think AI has to be the best little man to ever play. Tough to knock players I didn’t see play, but I have a hard time seeing anyone being able to best Iverson’s combination of explosiveness, shot, hell…even just being able to get so many shots off at his size.
As for Kobe’s D, I gotta disagree there. Kobe may not have guarded the best team’s guy all game, but there is really no doubt that if someone was going off Phil would put Kobe on him to slow him down. While not as versatile as a Shawn Marion, Kobe can defend several positions pretty effectively. At least he could. Last year he was just OK on the defensive end. Which leads me back to my earlier thought that maybe he is about to go down a bit. Now Kobe down a bit is still a top five/ten guy in the NBA. But I really think that those years of having to be the best defender and scorer on the team has taken a toll on him.
Now with Mike, relax guys. I still think he’s the best 2 guard of all time. And in a best of seven of Kobe in his prime against Jordan is his prime I think Jordan wins it. The year he was defensive player of the year, his numbers were great.
But overall, his defense was just a bit overrated. I’m not sold he could shut down Kobe. When talking about defense a lot of people immediately give that one to Jordan, but I’m not sold he was that much better a defender than Kobe is. Mike had a lot of tricks he used on the defensive end that I’m not sure he could get away with Kobe (Jordan has talked at length about some of his defensive tricks.)
So yeah, I would have to put my money on Mike, but I’m not sure it would really be “no contest.” Unlike the competition he faced, Kobe wouldn’t be scared to go after Jordan. If Kobe’s jumper is going, I don’t see Mike shutting that down. Kobe has lit up some damn good defenders folks.
Okori, Definitely talking sub 6′ , Nate and Zeke are listed at 6′1″. While 6′1″ is short by basketball standards, fact is every team have a guy between 6′0 -6′2″, so that size is common in the league. Now when we start talking about 5′5″, that’s short not only by league standards, but by everyday walking around standards. At 5′5″ Earl enjoyed a 10 year career, each year there are players drafted in the first round that are 6′+ that don’t last 10 year .
It’s not like he was a novelty act either, brother average damm near double digits per game for his career. His assist to turnovers was always good, no one ever stripped him of his dribble. I know defensively he was a major liability, but so was Tiny, Allen and Zeke.
Maybe the best little man ever is a stretch, but Boykins sure as hell is an exceptional player.
it’s a girl doing splits across the grand canyon kind of stretch Imhotep.
I actually think Muggsy Bogues is a better player because of his ability to press 94 feet on the opposing team’s PG.
Shon
You’re right about Kobe slipping a little. I thought I was the only one who saw it. And I think Kobe and Mike are a little overrated on defense, but I still think Mike was a better defender because he seemed better on a technical basis when I saw him.
I actually think Zeke is a better player than Iverson. It pains me to admit that since Iverson is my favorite player ever, but I think Isaiah was just better.
Brother Mo
I see your point but respectively disagree.
I don’t see how shot selection in a game of 1 on 1 should be in the discussion.
That being said, we could go on and on about respective FG% and we both could site our evidence. I’ll just say this. Jordan played against players who were by and large much less gifted athletically than he was. He was simply bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic than the majority of dudes he played against. He routinely was matched in single coverage against 6′2″ dudes who couldn’t jump. The thought that any team would send some poor schmuck like that against Kobe is simply ridiculous. Just go to the Youtube archives and see how much space Jordan had against the inferior defenses and defenders he saw on a nightly basis. Jordan was allowed to isolate a single defender on one side of the court while the other players on the team simply stood and watched on the other side of the court. Dude, I’ve seen Kobe TRIPLE TEAMED, 35 FEET FROM THE BASKET, WITHOUT THE BALL! Since Jordan never faced anything like that. And don’t even mention man-love from the refs that Jordan got.
Regarding the refs, My contention is that Kobe’s ridiculous skill-set and footwork basically allows him to dupe the defender into a foul on every possession but that the refs won’t call it in order to ensure some sense of fairness. In short, Kobe’s the first perimeter player in league history for which the refs have to change the definition of a foul in order to keep the league competitive.
Give Kobe Jordan love from the refs and the defenses Jordan had to play against and his FG% would be greater than Jordan’s.
It kinda amazes me that people still argue that Jordan was Kobe’s equal or superior offensively. I mean, it ain’t even close. Jordan became a great post offensive player in the post and refined his mid-range game to an incredible degree. But Kobe is only slightly less effective if even that in the post and his mid-range game would be even more deadly than Jordan’s given the same defenders. But on the perimeter, Kobe simply KILLS Jordan. He’s faster, has MUCH better handle, a far more varied arsenal, goes left with equal facility as he goes right, jumps off of either foot or both feet with equal effectiveness and has legit range out to 28-29 feet. Just looking at their skill set makes one wonder what people are thinking IMO.
In any case, in a game of 1 on 1, Jordan would be slightly better than Kobe in the post, but Kobe’s ridiculous advantage on the perimeter would give a clear advantage to Kobe.
Best of 7, to 21, Kobe 4-2.
Okay Kev,
I’ll admit that i forgot that we were just discussing “one-on-one” (even though it was my post!), and you know what — I’ll give Kobe the slight nod. But beyond one-on-one…
You raise some very good points and i respect the knowledge dropped on Kobe’s skills. I will concede that your argument might account for SOME of the big FG% gap which you have to admit is not a small gap. But here are some thoughts:
note about Jordan ref manlove: no argument here — it was disgusting. But Kobe certainly gets his share of ref love too. If you throw away Kobe’s first 3 development years and MJ’s last two Wizards years, their FT attempts per game are identical at 8.7 per game.
note on hand-checking: it used to be legal in the early 1990’s and was a great defender advantage before changed to “the forearm”. And as you know, THAT rule has been relaxed in recent years benefitting guard play.
Now remember, Jordan also played against the Knicks in the playoffs (with hand-checking), and I will put those early 1990’s Knicks defenses of the Pat Riley years next to ANY team today. Yes, Starks did give up three inches, but was an excellent defender. And the team defense the Knicks had was just incredible. Ewing in the middle to cover mistakes. Oakley one of the best all-time team defenders. Oakley and Anthony Mason would put you on your ASS (not to mention the one year X-man was on the team.) Their conditioning and their rotations were impeccable, and at least in the playoffs their tight defense started way out on the perimeter.
But your argument for the most part is based on skill-set (which seems equal to me — besides the range factor where Kobe is clearly superior). My argument is predicated om MINDset.
As much as I love Kobe, there have been just too many occasions where I shook my head as he hoisted up what I can only eloquently describe as a “dumb shot”. Not quite Jamal Crawford territory — but close. It has just happened too many times in too many games over too many years. In contrast, I just don’t remember having that feeling watching Jordan. I am making a very simple statement. Jordan’s higher FG percentage, at least in part, is not due to increased skill, but simply because he was simply more disciplined in taking wiser shots — and passing up on the terrible ones. I will even argue that Kobe’s superior range enabled him to take worse shots.
Three illustrative anecdotal examples on MJ:
1) The famous comeback double-nickel game at MSG. MJ is on complete fire and ends up with 49 at the end of the 3rd quarter. He actually goes cold in the 4th quarter (people forget). MJ now has 55, the game is tied on the Bulls final possession, and MJ could cap off the incredible evening in style. What happens? The Knicks rotate nicely, double-team him hard — so he finds an open Bill Wennington who hits the game winner.
2) The famous Steve Kerr game winner against Utah. Jordan could have actually gotten this shot — albeit off-balance — after splitting defenders. But he dished to Kerr at the crucial moment.
3) Even on the famous Paxson game winner in 1993. Jordan charged the ball up AFTER SCORING THE PREVIOUS 9 POINTS. Although receiving pressure he wasn’t double-teamed. He passed up to a more wide open Pippen which then went to Grant to Paxson.
In all of the above critical scenarios, given the dramatics involved — I envision Kobe hoisting the last shot even if it is a worse shot. Maybe he misses or makes all three. I don’t know. But i do know that they would be lower %. Jordan’s higher FG % also has something to do with the shots he wouldn’t take. Which is why — to any Knicks fan — a wide open three by a BJ Armstrong or Paxson — was always as much a dagger as anything MJ ever did.
Brother MODI, not to beat a dead horse, but well, I’m just sitting here watching the Olympics so I’ve got some time.
My contention is that in the skill set debate there really is no question that Kobe was better. Kobe did two things well that Jordan didn’t. He was able to jump off of his right foot and he was able to finish with creativity with his left hand. In addition, Kobe is able to string together longer and more complex sequences of moves than Jordan did, sequences that aren’t hampered by a pedestrian ability to go left. Jordan’s elbow slightly flayed out when he shot the J and made it more erratic, especially from three point land.
Jordan and Kobe might have averaged the same number of FT’s a game, and the no hand check rule might be in effect in the league, but the fact of the matter is that on a nightly basis, defenders are allowed to and check him and manhandle him in ways they were never allowed to do to Jordan. Kobe should go to the line about 15 or 16 times a game if the game were refereed fairly.
As far as shot selection goes. I can see your point as sometimes Kobe’s supreme comfidence seems to lead him to take shots that seem like bad shots, but my argument is that most of that comes from teammates that simply can’t get the job done. When you’ve got Luke, Kwame and Smush starting alongside of you and you lead them to a game 7 against a number 2 seed, well, I don’t know how you can make the arguments you make.
In the playoffs just completed, Kobe was doing the Jordan thing because his teammates were stepping up and hitting their shots. Come the finals, they all disappeared, started shooting like complete and utter crap. Every other starter on that team and the entire bench simply disappeared in that series. I don’t know how you can use the circumstance of Kobe playing with guys who disappear when the stage gets large against him. Do you honestly think that Jordan would have led that team to three or 4 wins against Boston? Do you think Jordan would have led the teams of the two years before to wins against the Suns?
I will say this, I’ve spent the last 3 hours watching Kobe/Jordan highlights and they were REMARKABLY similar. Jordan jumped a little more easily, Kobe goes left better jumps off of his right foot and finishes left better. THAT’S IT. Other than that, It’s almost impossible to tell the two players apart.
And come on man, John Starks? Dude was 6′5″ and jumped slowly. Kobe would have simply elevated over him or blown by him or posted him up all day long. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY any team in the NBA would put a slowish 6′5″ dude, with no hops, on Kobe, the carnage would have simply been too great. Surely you realize that.
Kobe,
The one point nobody ever likes to bring up with Jordan is the Bulls season after his first retirement to go play tee-ball, softball, minor league baseball, whatever … The Bulls won 55 games that year, led by Pippen and some role players, only two wins less than the year before with your holiness. They won the 1st round of the playoffs and got beaten by the Knicks in game 7 on a terrible call.
Jordan = major a-hole, it’s tough to find a redeeming quality with that guy. If he were any fuller of himself, we would have to call him Bill Walton. HA!
Okay, no more horse beating… except!:
Did you say Starks had “no hops”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIlwUgdp3BM&feature=related
And if you got 3 minutes enjoy some Anthony Hamilton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVr10i28Kw&feature=related
Oh, and check out the brief sequence where Starks bodies Jordan, and then tell me if that wouldn’t be called a foul today!!!
Unfortunately, the next year while having his best season, he injured his knee and never regained his explosiveness. Even worse, he missed the final quarter of the season and was activated at the time of the playoffs and did not have time to get his rhythm back. Had he not gotten injured that Knicks steamroll through and beat the Rockets easy (4-2 tops)
Mod
Damn, I was wrong about Starks. Dude had hops alright. Thanks for the highlight reel..
And dude, Kobe gets bodied like that all the time without fouls getting called. To be fiar, he does get those calls a lot too. But he gets roughhoused on a nightly without those calls being made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6rl4-7YtXo&feature=related
JG thats true. But the lakers in 1993 took the suns who lost to the bulls in the finals to 5 games. Remember those were 5 games series then.
This was a lakers team without a HIV infected Magic. So does that mean magic was not a focal point and the most importanat part of the team??
Of course that bulls team was good without jordan. But it was great with him. Also don’t forget that the bulls team was on the verge of not making the playoffs the very next year in 1995. Do to the lose of PF horace grant, Toni Kukoc played PF. When Jordan came back for the last 15 games they went on a winning streak.
Brotha Kevdog you know I have to add my 2cents to this brotha.
It seems that we get into this discussion about once every 3 months.
I have to take Jordan. As far as him playing 6-2 players all the time I have to disagree. Many of the players were as tall as him. And very athletic. Actually many of the players he played against overlapped the players that kobe played against. True there were times he played smaller players such as 6-3 Dumars and Alvin Robertson. But there are times when kobe plays smaller players also. During the regular season AI or anthony carter guards Kobe. Or when the bulls play a 6-4 Hinrich or 6-3 Gordan guards him. Lets not forget that when Kobe plays the Mavs that Kidd guards him who is 6-3. Or before kidd was a mav for the second time. Devin Harris guarded him.
Below I have just put together a short list of the 2 guards that guarded jordan in his prime. And when he came back from retirement the first time. Many of these players were extremely talented when they were young and could start today in the NBA and be all-stars. I have even attached a youtube link for some of their highlights.
steve smith (played 2 guard in ATL) 6-7
derek anderson 6-5
jeff malone 6-4
hersey hawkins 6-3
kendall gill 6-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3o51aST69g
dan majerle 6-6
clyde drexler 6-7
jeff horneck 6-4
eddie jones 6-6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx4y9v7urM
jerry stackhouse (with the 76ers and detroit) 6-6
michael finley 6-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXixmaZDSPA
penney hardaway (he played the 2 guard once shaq left. Darrell armstrong was the pg). 6-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZxUUa2KBIg
Ron Harper 6-6 (check out this link in case you forgot how good Ron harper and clyde were)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OULMzKbul9U
Kobe bryant (who was young)
Ray Allen (the same ray that was guarding kobe in the finals).
John starks 6-5
Gerald Wilkins 6-6
Latrell Sprewell 6-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugphPVQHaaw
Rolando blackman 6-6
Allen houston 6-6
Richard Dumas 6-7
Harold minor 6-5
Isiah Rider 6-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNR_CQceUDg
Nick Anderson 6-6
Reggie Theus 6-7
Reggie Lewis 6-7 (reggie lewis and kevin gamble switched between SF and 2 guard). But most of the time lewis would play jordan.
Kevin Gamble 6-5
Mitch Richmond 6-5
reggie miller 6-7
When he came back the second time with the wizards he played against these guys.
Kobe (who was even betterat this time then he was when he was younger.)
Vince Carter
Paul Pierce
tracy mcgrady
Oh and the NBA brought in zone defense in 2001-2002 season. Jordan not only played in that season, but played in the next season. Avg. 22.0 and 20.0 ppg.
Brotha Kevdog you know I have to add my 2cents to this brotha.
It seems that we get into this discussion about once every 3 months.
I have to take Jordan. As far as him playing 6-2 players all the time I have to disagree. Many of the players were as tall as him. And very athletic. Actually many of the players he played against overlapped the players that kobe played against. True there were times he played smaller players such as 6-3 Dumars and Alvin Robertson. But there are times when kobe plays smaller players also. During the regular season AI or anthony carter guards Kobe. Or when the bulls play a 6-4 Hinrich or 6-3 Gordan guards him. Lets not forget that when Kobe plays the Mavs that Kidd guards him who is 6-3. Or before kidd was a mav for the second time. Devin Harris guarded him.
Below I have just put together a short list of the 2 guards that guarded jordan in his prime. And when he came back from retirement the first time. Many of these players were extremely talented when they were young and could start today in the NBA and be all-stars. I have even attached a youtube link for some of their highlights.
steve smith (played 2 guard in ATL) 6-7
derek anderson 6-5
jeff malone 6-4
hersey hawkins 6-3
kendall gill 6-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3o51aST69g
dan majerle 6-6
clyde drexler 6-7
jeff horneck 6-4
eddie jones 6-6
Eddie Jones highlights below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx4y9v7urM
jerry stackhouse (with the 76ers and detroit) 6-6
michael finley 6-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXixmaZDSPA
penney hardaway (he played the 2 guard once shaq left. Darrell armstrong was the pg). 6-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZxUUa2KBIg
Ron Harper 6-6 (check out this link in case you forgot how good Ron harper and clyde were)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OULMzKbul9U
Kobe bryant (who was young)
Ray Allen (the same ray that was guarding kobe in the finals).
John starks 6-5
Gerald Wilkins 6-6
Latrell Sprewell 6-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugphPVQHaaw
eddie jones 6-6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWx4y9v7urM
jerry stackhouse (with the 76ers and detroit) 6-6
michael finley 6-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXixmaZDSPA
penney hardaway (he played the 2 guard once shaq left. Darrell armstrong was the pg). 6-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZxUUa2KBIg
Ron Harper 6-6 (check out this link in case you forgot how good Ron harper and clyde were)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OULMzKbul9U
Sorry about the double post people the site seemed to be actioning up.
Brother O. Who was guarding Scottie?
Speaking of basketball
So white boy Americans just love the NFL, and NBA loses in popularity every year. Meanwhile, worldwide, basketball is without a doubt on a trajectory that will make it the most popular sport in the world within the next 5 years.
I guess since the Chinese and those other foreign countries don’t have the white Media simply hating on the NBA because it’s dominated by blacks, they can see what’s really what.
Ha!
Brother O
Dude, they don’t put smaller players on Kobe.
And Modi I have to agree with the shot selection issue with Kobe. My only other complant is since he has basically watched and copy every jordan move. Down to is little rub his feet and jump in the air before the tip off. Why doesn’t he use the Jordan drive and pull up move at the free throw line. Jordan began to use this move more and more as he got older. To conserve energy and because defenses would collapse as he was getting into the paint. THis is something that Kobe didn’t do and should have done in the finals because he was getting too far in the paint and getting caught taking a bad shot or throwing a bad pass with defenders around.
Such as in this highlight against the heat in 1992. Also look at his foot work. Jab step. Step back. Look how MJ taps his feet and balls his fist before the tip. Man kobe copied all of his moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4
Also as I have pointed out Kev dog that ever since that incident in Colo. Kobe no longer got the calls he once did. The league and endorsements no longer look at him as the face of the league.
As far as him being doubled and tripled Kevdog that has more to do with his team not being as good as it once was. When shaq was there he often got single coverage because shaq was gonna eat a team up if they doubled kobe. Remember when the last 2 to 3 minutes were left in the game the lakers would clear out and go one on one with Kobe (when shaq was there) because teams would foul shaq and he was a poor free throw shooter.
Jordan received the same triple and double team coverage. Once Scottie, horace and the rest of the players got better and most importantly punished the other team for doubling and triple teaming Jordan. Those double and triple teams ended.
Case in point go watch the finals vs seattle. The Sonics double and tripled team Jordan the whole series. Karl even said he wasn’t going to let jordan avg. 30 or 40 in the series against him. But Scottie, Kukos, kerr and Rodman (on the boards) made them pay for double and tripling Jordan.
As far as handles I still believe Jordan was just as good going left as he was going right. Trust me ask MODI about how many times his knicks forced Jordan to go left baseline and he killed them reverse, dunk, fade away and so forth.
As far as his medium shooting range it was just as good as Kobe. Check out the 1993 playoffs against the knicks. In the 4 game winning streak after they were down 0-2 jordan basically killed the knicks raining jumpers from 15 to 20 feet out.
As far as skill set I would say Kobe is a better 3 point shooter. (espcially his ability to fade away from the 3 pt line) However jordan wasn’t trash from the 3 line. He was a decent shooter out there. But he just believed in taking high percentage shots. I can remember many times him saying that he wanted to be efficent enough from the 3 pt line so that team would respect his shot. But he believed the key was taking a higher percent shot if he could.
But in terms of driving Jordan was better in my eye. Some say it is because of his hands. I always said because of his agility and hangtime. I think he was more agile then Kobe. The way he could torque himself in the air and avoid contact or take it. Then change his body to get off a shot. Sme of the angles he took his shots were stuff I have never seen Kobe do.
I am not big on highlights, but here are some from a kat named Hoopsencyclopedia. He pretty much has the best MJ highlights and many that most folks have never seen unless you lived in Chicago and were able to see all the games that he played as a bull. As a young child till I was an adult I was able to see about 90% of Jordan’s games as a bull and I have to say that I remember most of these games.
Anyway 6:14, 6:34 and 6:39 really show his strange ability to almost change direction in air or switch hands in traffic with multiple players in the paint. And on top of this it was common to see these moves in almost evey game I saw him play. Just amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvxijHNWB4
I even believe jordans fadeways were better in which he was able to get more seperation in his fadeway from the defender as well as he had more of a dream type shake moves to get his shot off.
I would also say the Defense is the same however I believe that jordan was a better shot block. He was great at coming from behind centers and guards and blocking their shot.
Also lets not forget that when comparing a modern day Kobe that we must compare a 33 -34 year old jordan to kobe. Due to Kobes NBA miles on his Body. Dude has been in the league since 18. So thats 12 years of wear where as at kobes age of 30 now jordan was in his 9th year.
Well brotha Kev………….hinrich/Gordan (deng guards the SF) does guard kobe and so does AI or Anthony Carter. Remember Denver and chicago have small back courts. Carmello and Deng guard the SFs.
Oh and Kenyon Martin guarded Kobe only in the playoffs. You do know that Anthony Mason guarded MJ when he was the starting SF for the knicks in 1996??
As far as who guarded Scottie.
Well when Nick Anderson (before shaq left the magic) guarded MJ………..Dennis Scott guarded Scottie.
When Clyde guarded MJ with Portland. Kersey guarded Pip.
When Ray Allen guarded MJ for the bucks. Big Dog guarded Pip.
When Allen houston guarded MJ with the Knicks. Larry Johnson guarded Pip.
When Steve Smith guarded MJ with the Hawks. Stacy Augman Guarded Pip.
When Sprewell/mitch richmond with the Warriors guarded MJ. Mullin guarded Pip.
When Mitch Richmond guarded MJ with the kings. Waymen Tisdale or Walt Williams guarded PiP.
When Thunder Dan/richard dumas with the suns guarded MJ. Cedric Ceballos guarded Pip.
When Edddie Jones/Kobe/anthony peeler with the lakers guarded MJ. Cedric Ceballos guarded Pip.
When Gerald wilkins guarded MJ with the knicks. xavier mcdaniels guarded Pip.
When Gerald wilkins guarded MJ with the cavs. Larry Nance guarded Pip.
When Harold Miner guarded MJ in Miami. Glen Rice guarded Pip.
Thats just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.
Yeap thats true brotha Kev it is on the way to be the most popular game in the world. All you need is the 1 billion folks in India to catch on its a rap.
And Kobe is the most popular player in the world. Next is Lebron and AI.
Because heck with a population of 1.2 billion in china heck all you need to be is popular there and in India and its a rap too.
But I always said if the NFL were to suddenly have a large influx of black QBs, kickers, punters and OL men. The league is over because no one follows it outside the US and american whites will stop watching it.
Oh and when Kendall gill was with the hornets he guarded MJ and Anthony Newman guarded Pip.
When Kendall was in Seattle he guarded MJ. But the greatest player to ever come out of Germany guarded Pip and that was detlef schrempf.
LOL!!!
I’m sorry can’t hide the hate for Dirk. Ok Ok maybe not the greatest player but the most versatile player to ever come out of germany. And he was a very good defender. Detlef could play SG, SF and PF.
damn, KD and origin, love the discussion, the fact-dropping, and the youtube linking!
okay, kev, Kobe got fouled in that video… can’t deny it! But did you check out that 56 against the heat — against steve snith too…
Anyway, you guys made me do a little fact checking about Jordan’s 3 point shooting and here it is:
He sucked at the beginning as everybody knows, but HE KNEW TOO so he never took that many of them… until he worked his ass of in the off-season!
His last five years with the Bulls he shot 37% from 3 point range.
Kobe —
31% — First 6 years (2.3 attempts per game)
35% — Next 6 Years. (5 attempts per game)
Jordan
17% — First 4 Years (but took less than 1 per game)
33% — Next 4 years (takes 1.7 per game)
37% — Last five years with Bulls (takes 2.2 per game)
Jordans stats also indicate that if he wasn’t hot from the 3 point line that particulary year ten he shut it down. In only 4 seasons did he ever average three 3-point attempts a game, and in those seasons he shot 38%. In no other season did he average more than 1.5 attempts.
After further review, looking at the stats, how Jordan “shut it down” on seasons when the stroke wasn’t there, this reinforces the point about Jordan’s “mindset”. I attribute Jordan’ higher 3-point shooting % than Kobe’s in his last five Bull years as a man who just took wiser shots and didn’t force it if it wasn’t there or if he wasn’t feeling it.
I believe that Kobe could easily increase his overall shooting % and productivity if he just settled for fewer 3-pointers. Maybe 4 a game instead of 5…. and he should drop that one really BAD attempt you see every game
Exactly MODI. He was a efficient scorer, he always wanted to take a high percentage shot. Thats the one aspect that wade reminds me of Jordan, he is always looking for the high percentage shot. He always trys to get to his sweet spot. Just because the defense is giving you a shot doesn’t mean you have to take it. Just like in that miami game highlights when MJ scored 56. You see how many times he forced the issue and made sure to take the high percentage shot.
Also remember that during the 90s teams rarely took more then about 9 to 12, 3 pointers a game.
Teams like the suns (with Barkley) and rockets were the first teams to shoot more then 9 a game.
I remember when Rudy T began running the so called dream offense in Houston in the 90s. When he would have 4 shooters standing outside the 3 pt line. And have Hakeem in the paints. They would throw the ball inside to Hakeem, then when the defense doubled they would kick it out to the 3 pt shooters. You would have games when the rockets would take 18 3pts. I mean this was unheard then.
Now teams like the modern suns, lakers, memphis, rockets and celtics for example will take 20 3s in a game. He11 the lakers who I have criticized for falling in love with the 3. Took 41 freaking I repeat 41….3s in a game vs the grizzles this past season. I was screaming at the TV as I watched Kobe, Sasha, radmonovich and the rest of the lakers shoot ill advised 3 after 3 after 3. These dudes only made like 10 3s the whole game.
Modi often times we forget how good alot of these great players were. Man folks forget how great Pat Ewing was man that dude was the truth. You know how they hype all these tall euro players that can hit jumpers? Well pat was just as good at hitting jumpers as many of these tall euros. Not the 3 point shooter that many are but from the paint to about 20 to 21 feet pat was automatic.
I remember in the 92 playoffs when they took the bulls to 7 games. Pat was the most consistant jump shooter on the team. The dude was the only knick who could knock down a 20 footer consistantly on that team during that playoff series.
I remember when the bulls would press or trap the knick guards and some how pat would get the ball 18 plus feet out with the shot clock running down. He would knock that shot down over and over again with guard type of shooting ability. Man I couldn’t believe how he was knocking down cluch jumpers with the clock running down. Many times cartwright would give him space. But as the series went on Cartwright would go out and defend him. Yet Pat would still knock it down with a hand in his face.
The man was the straight truth. Dang shame he never had a great wing player. He would have won a few rings.
Brother O.
We just gone have to disagree on who guarded MJ and Pip. It’s all good though. We can still be friends.
HAHA I hear you brotha.
Its all good man. I am still rooting on your boy Kobe to get in Greece and Spains @ss.
Just to piss off the media when he gets that gold.
Any enemy of the MSM is a friend of mine…….