Kim Couture vs. Kim Rose, MMA and American Bloodlust
June 26, 2008
And we go sinking, unblinking, into madness….
“They” bet their lives on this and “They” do not want you to read this; “They” do not want this to see the light of day. Not the head honchos and producers at CBS or FOX. And certainly not the executives in the same positions at ESPN/ABC. And the minions who write for those establishments of some disrepute will dutifully follow orders and find “It” an event and issue to disregard when thinking of what to write next.
But It” is here.
Again.
“It” is another potential moment. “it” is another opportunity for us to shake ourselves from our collective daze and become fully awake, and begin the climb to right ourselves.
In preparation for tonight’s NBA draft Miami Heat president Pat Riley allegedly questioned the “attitude” and “character” of Michael Beasley, the best player in NCAA basketball last season. We hear these charges repeatedly when it comes to athletes, as if those who employ them are somehow above reproach and those they employ are somehow lesser as human beings. The min
Now, though, the tables are turned.
It is we who can observe the bad attitude and lack of character of the people who present us with the sports we see. And it is we who can comment on this lack of character and perhaps rise from our own malaise in the process. However, whether or not we begin to view these “media masters” and people in charge of sports teams and leagues with the same jaundiced eye they advise us to view the athletes who play the games remains to be seen.
——————————
The moment, the “It”, occurred Friday night at the Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas, Nevada. The “It” was a Mixed Martial Arts bout between Kim Rose and Kim Couture. This fight was overseen by Keith Kizer and the Nevada State Athletic Commission which is the best the sport has to offer. Yet Couture suffered a badly broken jaw and nose due to a Rose punch just seconds into the first round of their three-round, five minute per round fight.
Despite the swelling in her face, despite the fact that Couture bled profusely at times throughout the bout, Couture was allowed to continue to fight and ultimately finished the match. The match referee did not attempt to stop the fight. The Commission officials in attendance did not attempt to stop the fight. Couture’s husband, Randy, former NCAA wrestler and 5-time UFC fighting champion, did not stop his wife from continuing to fight.
As was mentioned in a Steve Cofield Yahoo! Sports commentary about the fight (quote from Bloody Elbow.com), if no one knew beforehand, Randy Couture had to know that his wife was badly injured when she went to her corner at the end of the first round. After all, with a broken jaw, talking for Kim was barely possible:
I wanted to add another thought that occurred to me about this fight. Its not so much that this was a woman’s MMA fight. This fight should be questioned regardless of the competitors’ sex. Anytime a fighter suffers a major fracture the fight should be stopped between rounds. Its one thing for Frank Shamrock to conceal an arm break from his corner for a couple rounds against Cung Le. Presumably the corner had no idea. But I have to think that Kim couldn’t talk to her corner after the first round and they should have known that something was very very wrong.
Questions also arose about the length of the fight. Why were these women fighting three five minute rounds rather than the three minute rounds we saw in the Elite XC bout, CBS-televised bout between Gina Carano battle Kaitlin Young?
In video of the fight Couture’s hideously bloated jaw can be clearly seen. Immediately below is round one of the fight.
The injuries occur seconds into the fight, the result of a devastating overhand right from Rose to Couture’s face. By the second round, the swelling in Couture’s face is clearly apparent. Even if her husband did not know after round one, by the middle of round two Randy Couture had to know his wife’s jaw was seriously injured.
And by the final round there is no question as to the severity of Couture’s condition.
So, what happened here? Couture is a relatively inexperienced MMA fighter who was overmatched and scheduled to fight six minutes longer than she should or probably could - at a high level for her - have.
Part of what happened here is connections in this society mean everything. With a few silky words and boasts from her ex- 6-year Army vet (1882-1988), MMA Hall of Fame husband Randy, 33-year old Kim Couture was set up to make some dough in a big-time women’s MMA bout. Let’s be frank, the most Randy Couture has accomplished since his official retirement from the game in 2006 are two appearances on Spike TV’s “Pros vs. Joe’s and “reality” show where the average person gets to do battle against a ex-pros in an approximation of a given sport.
Most importantly, though, we are in America, the dilapidated land of “blood is good but more blood is better.” As long as blood is involved, we video game driven, reality show watching, war is patriotism believing peoples are in it to win it.
And we, obviously, could care less whether or not that blood is spilled by men or women.
This bout was put on by the very best MMA has to offer and the outcome was a disaster for the “sport.” Imagine what happens in lesser-known fights in far-flung corners of the U.S. with men and women without the currency of Randy Couture. Can the death of one of the 21st-century neo-Roman gladiators be far behind? Or, in some backwoods event has there already been a death in which those in attendance witnessed but will not dare speak of for fear of being seen as implicitly complicit in manslaughter —– and explicitly complicit in the death of the sport?
In those spots away from the big money and the mainstream cameras imagine the wanton, uninhibited clamoring for action, for blood, for someone to take a beating, and for one gladiator to raise their deep red-spotted half-gloves in heavy-breathing, sweaty Russell Crowe or Hilary Swank movie glory.
We Are Americans, bitches and We Will Kick Your Ass!
That is the message the throngs of passive-aggressive, wanna-be killers who wouldn’t bust a grape if they got punched in the face but will certainly don cammo gear or trench coats and shoot up a bunch of fools with semi-automatic weapons Americans want to portray to the rest of the world. This is the place you come to make it if you have a heartless nature, the bloodless guile, and the ability and desire to do anything including to suck ass or prostrate yourself like a whore. This is the place where merit means almost nothing but who you ally yourself with means everything - as long as you play the game, that is.
It is the place where the laziness of portraying the image of being “the man” is much preferred to the work entailed in actually becoming the man.
And while we recently witnessed the first portrayal of a black man as a gangster in the mold of the Italian Mafia, we have yet to see a mainstream movie about the real killers in the country. The killers who never lift a hand to take a life, but have taken 10s of millions more lives than all the “gangsters” history can gather.
That movie’s name could only be, “American Despot.”
Just ask any despotic type in any other country we haven’t already killed to hide the trail of slime back to our own house.
Through the Kim Couture-Kim Rose gore fest we have the chance to look in the mirror and tell ourselves, ‘enough is enough;’ to tell ourselves and look ourselves in the eye and say ‘I must become more human and humane.’ But to do so would be to admit we are the only unsafe creatures whose actions are unfit for this planet; the only animals willing to take each others’ lives for reasons other than out own survival.
But in this season of madness, the inertia caused by our psychic sickness appears to great for us to stop from giving ourselves over to people who would prefer to see us dead than have the real hope of eating at their table.
And so with Kin Couture and Kim Rose and You Tube and writers we see as “authorities” who say next to nothing of the event so as to allow our condition to worsen, and in our unseemly lust to witness the pain of others and imagining that it is us who inflicted that pain…
the American Despots win again.
Comments
43 Responses to “Kim Couture vs. Kim Rose, MMA and American Bloodlust”
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I had a friend growing up who loved MMA, boxing, the martial arts, and all that stuff. He tried to get me interested in it. This was 10-15 years ago, when the Brazilians ruled MMA and the tapes put out looked homemade in their quality. I watched one of the videos with him and saw a guy get his arm broken in a hold. He walked off after the match, his arm dangling, with a goofy look on his face. The announcer said something complimentary to the effect that “Well, he broke his arm, but he’s still smiling knowing he was in a great match. That’s the spirit of MMA right there!” When I heard that, I knew I was done with MMA, right there. How can we celebrate a man’s broken arm and call it sport?!
I like my wrestling and boxing up to a point, but when the goal of the game is the bloody destruction and submission of someone else’s body, I’m gone. That friend, as you would guess, has a terrible back right now because of all the falls and slams he endured over the years. Don’t let people tell you that MMA doesn’t exact a physical toll on its players!
Dwil I understand the point you make but I just don’t see where this logic ends. I mean, should we make supporting football because it involves massive tackles which cause concussions and other terrible injuries? Or at the very least change it to some kind of flag football so that it isn’t as barbaric? Maybe the same logic goes for hockey. And hey, some people get hurt badly in basketball and baseball too, maybe we should eliminate all contact from those sports.
OK, so the odds of competitors being seriously injured is much higher in MMA and boxing than in most other sports. But, as has been occasionally discussed on this blog and others, different sports simply appeal more or less to different people for different reasons. Now, there are a few people on here who read this who will no doubt comment about the “science” or “strategy” in boxing or MMA which makes it so entertaining. Are all such people barbaric because they enjoy certain aspects of a sport which also involves heavy violence? Should they re-tool their preferences so as to enjoy less violent sports like golf and tennis?
short answer to motown
yes
dee-
same answer…..
Ummm lets be frank, since his retirement in 2006, Randy Coutre returned to the ring in 2007 to win the title from Tim Sylvia then successfully defended the title against Gabriel Gonzaga later that year. If you are going to condemn the sport, put a little effort in to it… even a casual fan like myself knew you got wrong.
Also to claim this is the best production MMA has to offer is just absurd. It begins and ends with the UFC, which is why many “purists” have lamented the CBS productions as a step back for the sport. If you can not see the skill and savvy behind an exchange of transitions by two jujitsu fighters, then you will never like this sport. And with the gloves used in MMA, at the very least you avoid the brain swelling problems the strip boxers of their cognitive function if not more.
Like the other comment, where does it end? Do you condemn a sport like football that is literally forcing players at nearly every level to torture and manipulate their bodies so they can be Bigger, Faster, Stronger and compete…. All in an effort to make the sport faster and more violent. My high school alma matter last year had 3 or 4 players on the O and D lines at 6’1 to 6’3 approaching 300lbs, that is just madness.
Dwil - I knew you wouldn’t make it until July.
In defense of my beloved NFL, NBA and college football and basketball, at least they would have gotten the guy off the field or court if the player clearly had a broken jaw.
Injuries in those sports CAN happen in the course of the game. That’s the risk of those sports and the leagues do everything they can think of from helmets to pads to refs etc to try to help prevent it. And when someone gets hurt from either side, everyone with half a brain stops and sends a prayer up to whichever God they serve hoping the player is OK. Because while we all when playikng and watching the sport realize there is a risk of someone getting hurt, we don’t really want it to happen.
But with this stuff, the GOAL of it is to injure, bloody and cripple another person and that’s exactly what everyone wants to see. That’s completely different and if someone honestly doesn’t see that, I really don’t know how to explain it.
That chick was basically just beaten to a bloody mess. Did people really enjoy watching that?
“This bout was put on by the very best MMA has to offer”
I’m sorry, what UFC or even EliteXC card was this fight a part of? What channel was this fight even on? I must have missed it after watching the other MMA organizations who actually have their own “rules” that stipulate a woman’s fight is only 3 3 minute rounds.
Jesus… what has this country come to? We are not a nation of f-ing savages, dwil. We are not a nation of “kill or be killed” people. I’m not the idiot that’s advocating MMA become an olympic sport, but I’m also not the pantywaist that’s complaining because now women are fighting. Do you not want to allow women to be able to participate in activities such as this? What should they do, cook their fighter husband dinner and wait for him to come home with the check?
Where’s the next stopping point? Let’s get rid of boxing and WWE also? How about, let’s put Steve Kelso sized batting helmets on baseball players and body armor on all children taking part in their neighborhood little league games.
While we’re at it, let’s take all of the sugar out of the cereals that you likely ate as a kid because Frosted Flakes really aren’t “grrrrrrrrrrrreat”. Let’s also get rid of the neighborhood tackle football games, and pass out 5 foot leashes for our children to wear because we’re too busy as adults to pay attention to them when we go to the mall or to a movie.
Let’s all join in a form of revolution against any kind of physical activity in this country. As a matter of fact, let’s just hug trees from here on out. Let’s hug trees and you know, ignore the fact that me and several groups of people spotted Michael Beasley drinking at a downtown DC nightclub as a 19 year old recently and the real reason why Riley is worried is because of the accessibility of the Miami nightlife, let’s ignore the fact that Couture can’t actually fight anyone just like Tito Ortiz can’t sign another contract until the non-compete clause portion of his contract runs out. Let’s ignore all that… Let’s just ignore it and write a commentary pointing the finger at everyone else that doesn’t sit their child in a booster seat until the age of 17 for fear that they might be hurt when someone parks a car on their side and dings the door next to them when they get out.
I know what I’ll call it… the pussification of america. That’s what I’ll call it! We can all tuck our sacks back and not ever do anything entertaining except read about the things that happened in this country’s history. We’ll give everyone a cell phone and anyone under the age of 18 can only call their parents or 911. We’ll throw every man in jail who looks at a 17 year old girl and thinks “damn, if only she was 18″. Get a grip man… fighting has been around for years. Muhammed Ali made a living off of beating guys to a bloody pulp. Cry a river to the guys whose brains are now mush from fighting Ali, Frazier, etc. They would do it all over again if given the chance.
I feel you on the war aspect portion of this, but none of the rest.
shon
“But with this stuff, the GOAL of it is to injure, bloody and cripple another person and that’s exactly what everyone wants to see. That’s completely different and if someone honestly doesn’t see that, I really don’t know how to explain it.”
The goal isn’t to injure anyone. The goal in boxing isn’t to injure anyone, it’s to win the fight. The goal is to put your opponent in a position where they cannot continue the match whether by submission or knockout. Now, 15 years ago this was a joke. A circus in the ring without weight classes or licensing. Now with licensing, gaming commission approval and weight classes it’s become as legit as boxing, if not more legit.
Those that don’t know what the sport is about probably shouldn’t comment on it. It’s like me saying that the only reason why people watch hockey is for the fights.
shon-
You are wrong. You see, like I just mentioned, there are many boxing or MMA fans who watch the matches because of the science, the strategy, the footwork, the clash of styles, etc. At the very least, these fans, the so-called “educated” fans do not claim to enjoy the sport because of violence. Yet Dwil has asserted that by his logic these people are also barbaric and have a problem. Now, using that same logic, you are also barbaric. You take pleasure in watching sports where athletes receive concussions and brain damage, no matter how small, on each play. Sometimes these players have massive injuries that will permanently affect their lives. No, you do not watch football to see Troy Aikman receive his 10th concussion or watch basketball to see Shaun Livingston all but rip his knee in half. Yet by patronizing and supporting sports and activities where these things can happen, you, like those boxing fans, are complicit in their occurrence. If nobody supported sports at all then nobody would ever hurt themselves playing them. And you and the other fans prayers will do little good when Aikman can’t remember what his kids’ names are when he’s 55 or when Livingston will need a walker at 40.
Boney - Right off the top, I’ll speak on whatever I want to.
Second, no I don’t watch too much of this or boxing. I only follow MMA through one of my friends who fights locally and some of the other guys at their gym. They’re all good people and I pray for their safety. When you have had to fight for real, its kind of hard to get any “enjoyment” out of watching it on television in any form. When you know people who have gotten beaten to death because they owed someone 173 bucks, you realize that those punches do matter. That the blood is real. The injuries are real. And the combination of those things can kill people. Most of the guys I know are just poor kids from all different backgrounds fighting because it’s the only thing they really know how to do. Sorry, but that depresses me and I think it sucks.
“The goal is to put your opponent in a position where they cannot continue the match whether by submission or knockout.”
A knock out is a head INJURY that causes a person to be unconscious. A submission is putting someone in a position where they will either admit defeat or have a limb broken or be rendered unconscious. Thus, part of the goal, as you stated it, is to injure someone or to put them in a state where they can either quit or be injured.
To be clear, I’m not exactly advocating one side or another here. I can see where Dwil is coming from regarding boxing/MMA being inherently violent, and injurious, sports. But I don’t like where he takes that argument and that’s just what I’m trying to get to the bottom of.
Motown - no, you’re trying to minimize this issue by pulling in other sports. And if that makes you feel better, then I guess its whatever man. As I said in another post on this topic, I don’t think the distance between enjoying boxing and MMA is as far as many would like. At the same time, no one watching that basketball game was hoping Livingston would break his leg like that. NO ONE. No one (with half a brain) wants to see a player get carted off the field in football unless they live in Philly. There is just so much more to football than just the hits.
When you watch MMA, you are looking for blood and injury. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.
motown - i did not see your last post, but I was under the assumption that you were a fan. If you are not, then I take back that you are looking for blood and injury.
This is not personal at all toward you or Boney or anyone else, even though I think my posts are sounding that way. I just don’t get it I guess.
There may be more to football then hits but what about the lifestyle many of these players are forced to live that leaves them as cripples and/or with dire health problems? You don’t watch the sport to see that, but you are condoning a sport where players are forced to transform their bodies to unnatural proportions. We want to see the gargantuan right tackle matched up the freak pass rusher. I’m not saying there is no difference between a sport like football and combat sports like boxing and MMA, but to simply dismiss a sport fan base as out for blood and guts is oversimplifying things.
I feel the same way about football that I fell about Boxing and MMA. The shit ain’t right. And I used to play ball at a decent level in high school. I think all three sports are way too violent. Hockey might be on the list. I don’t think it’s about pussification, I think it’s about watching people hurt themselves and finding it entertaining. My position on these violent sports has evolved over the years and while I am not ready for an outright boycott, I can’t help but feel a little dirty watching any of the sports.
Rock - actually, you are right. I am sure there are those who do enjoy the other aspects of MMA. I’m not saying anything here that I have not said to my friends who either fight or love the sport, but you are right. Not all people are just after the blood and guts, I guess I don’t see how people are able to get past it.
Jack Youngblood.
Super Bowl XIV
Is he in the Hall of Fame today if he did not play in a Super Bowl with a fractured leg?
By the way, I can’t watch MMA. Within 30 seconds, I almost always feel nauseous. But I’ve spent an awful lot of time on YouTube searching for “NFL” and “hits.”
shon-
I don’t know man, I’m not a big fan of MMA or boxing. But I’ve just always been bothered by people who say that this or that sport has no value, or that its fans are deficient in some way. There’s a lot of sports I don’t care for much….boxing, soccer, figure skating. But I can see the value in them and how other people appreciate that value. To me its similar to when people talk about hip-hop not being music, or how its fans are somehow lesser than fans of “real music.”
After watching the weekend marathon of UFC, I think I get it. before this past weekend, I didn’t. I remember being a little kid obsessed with everything Bruce Lee cuz my older bros were into him. The dudes on UFC remind me of my brother. They remind me of the meatheads in school who picked on and were picked on. They had “What the fuck you looking at” for anyone with a transient gaze.
These dudes on UFC just figured out how to capitalize on their passion. Their passion being fighting.
You can’t step into that ring with one style and expect to dominate the sport. The best dudes on that show knew a little bit of many styles and knew -or learned- how and when to apply it. Its kind of scary to think of how MMA will evolve and where the fights will go. The fighters will get bigger, better…stronger. They’ll evolve.
But fighting is a sport. Some people get off on it. Actually fighting…not just watching it. So as long as there are people willing to fight for money, there will be people lined up trying to catch a glimpse. You can’t blame the spectators for paying…just like you can’t blame the fighters for playing. Some people are good at cooking a delicious meal and others were made to crush people’s faces.
I think I realized that there was an intricate strategy to MMA fights. The ground game element adds so many more layers to the fighting…so much so, it makes boxing boring in comparison.
The only problem I see in MMA is mismatches. A mismatch can turn ugly very quickly and watching someone get pummeled mercilessly is too much for me. its turns the excitement of watching two people trying to win into feelings of sadness, guilt and self-reflection. Women’s fights shouldn’t be 5 minutes. That’s the problem.
I’m at work so I cant view the footage until I get home…but is that half of her bottom row knocked out I see?
Brutal..
I won’t lie… I love boxing, and I find MMA to be okay. Exploitive on many levels? Yes. Monsterus in its presingtaion often? Yes
But sometimes….not the majority of incidents or even often, but sometimes it provides for a great match.
I will always be a fan of a good knock out, just as I am of a great hockey check or a Chuck Cecil like hit.
Watching a person flat on their back being pummled with kick, fists, and elbows….. not cool
“We hear these charges repeatedly when it comes to athletes, as if those who employ them are somehow above reproach and those they employ are somehow lesser as human beings”
Character Issues…. Cant we add that phrase to the Code Dictionary?….. At the moment no matter how poor his judgment was, I’m tired of people treating Javon Walker like a criminal when he was the victim of his incidnet
“And while we recently witnessed the first portrayal of a black man as a gangster in the mold of the Italian Mafia, we have yet to see a mainstream movie about the real killers in the country. The killers who never lift a hand to take a life, but have taken 10s of millions more lives than all the “gangsters” history can gather.”
Very Very tru… On that note…I wonder if you’ve heard The Immortal Techniques offering “3rd World”….. The title track is worth it alone.
“we have the chance to look in the mirror and tell ourselves, ‘enough is enough;’ to tell ourselves and look ourselves in the eye and say ‘I must become more human and humane.’ But to do so would be to admit we are the only unsafe creatures whose actions are unfit for this planet; the only animals willing to take each others’ lives for reasons other than out own survival”
Humans in general, and definitely the American Kind…have never really been good at admitting their faults. Micro or Macro….
What a shame it is….
I feel you on the taking lives analogy, but it seems like a horrid side effect of our human intelligence. We warp “survival” in to many different aspects and arenas. .Economic and other wise…
Good read fam
Man D-Wil do you make an effort to know ANYTHING about MMA? Like anything save that you think it’s some grand representation of America’s moral decline?
Ok… to piggyback of some poiunts people made here. THe idea that a fight between Kim Couture and Kim Rose, off-tv in Colorado, is “the best MMA has to offer” is the kind of ridiculousness commonly traded in by people who run gossip web sites. I mean really? It was a women’s MMA fight by i believe a DEBUT promotion (I could be wrong on this. I haven’t checked.) Not exactly the gold standard for the sport.
And again….. this idea that you seem to have, polished up by the few people who agree with you (although MODI made the point that far less of the fans come to see people get KTFO’d), that all MMA fans are bloodthirsty enfant terribles is ridiculous. UFC fans, in the beginning of the sport, might have been this way. But as time has gone on, and their knowledges of the intricacies of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, and the various disciplines required whenever a fight goes to the ground only improved, they became more willing to see a chess match take place. The inverse is true for EliteXC because they sold their show on the violence inherent in the “Me Tarzan, You Jane” walking Amos N’ Andy cartoon called Kimbo Slice.
D-Wil I made you a challenge to open your mind, and relinquish your childish biases about what MMA is. I even published the challenge on my blog (which is hot-linked here.) But, since you appear to be going about the business of proving that when you come across something you don’t like that no amount of people telling you different would dissuade you, I’ll make it here again. the next Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Grappling Championships here in the United States will be on October eighteenth and nineteenth. I extend you an offer, when the time comes, that you and I go together and you can see what the real influences of MMA are. And how people who are the real fans can see everything but the vicious brawls you imagine them looking for.
Thank you very much.
nice piece dwil
Boney, banning dodgeball is the “pussification of America’… what we are talking about here is the civilization of America”
“Jesus… what has this country come to? We are not a nation of f-ing savages, dwil. We are not a nation of “kill or be killed” people.”
Um, yes we are. That is why we started a War in Iraq.
“Do you not want to allow women to be able to participate in activities such as this? What should they do, cook their fighter husband dinner and wait for him to come home with the check?”
No where in the article did it differentiate women.
“Where’s the next stopping point?”… (fill in hyperbole here)
While the rest of your argument was blatantly over-the-top. I would pose the question back to you… where is the “ending point”…”Roman Gladiators?”…I’m sure thast the Pro-arguments sounded much like yours
Okori-
Your statement, THe idea that a fight between Kim Couture and Kim Rose, off-tv in Colorado, is “the best MMA has to offer” is the kind of ridiculousness commonly traded in by people who run gossip web sites,” is so far off base I wonder what it is you’re really wanting to accomplish.
The bout took place in Las Vegas at the Thomas and Mack Center which seats 19,000 people.
Rock-
Though I disagree with much of your first comment, I completely agree with your feelings on the analogous gladiator-like nature of NFL players.
And yes, it is really difficult to stay away….
but it’s not UFC. it’s not even WEC, or Pride, or EliteXC. it’s like Xtreme Couture… which, for the purposes of analogy, is like someone coming up to you and telling you that a guy in the USBL is better than Kobe. It’d be hard to believe. And so is that Rose-Couture is honestly the best UFC has to offer.
but hey…. I can’t convince you that which you are unwilling to believe.
Okori - “But as time has gone on, and their knowledges of the intricacies of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, and the various disciplines required whenever a fight goes to the ground only improved, they became more willing to see a chess match take place.”
Do you believe that? And that is a serious question. Because I don’t. Not even for a second. If that is true then why don’t pure wrestling matches, etc get more TV viewership and general attendance? Even Olympic level wrestling gets negligible ratings and that’s if you can even figure out when its actually being shown. Those sports and events barely register a blip on the radar unless the competitor is insanely good. The ratings for pure wrestling matches completely pail in comparison to MMA ratings. Is the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu match you are speaking on even being broadcast on TV? Is the attendance as high as MMA events? If not, please explain to me why that would be if its not because of the additional violence of MMA.
As I said earlier, I can’t keep painting with a broad brush and stereotyping every MMa fan as a bloodthirsty savage. At the same time, I find it pretty tough to believe that people are really watching this just to see a chess match. Same way I think most people are watching boxing to see a knockout and not sweet science.
well first off don’t say Pure Wrestling too loud. we might get into an entirely different conversation.
but as far as olympic-style wrestling goes…. I’d say that it is televised routinely. the trick is that there are hotbeds where it is treated like a big deal, and places where it isn’t. Iowa, for instance, would like to remind you that they are the cradle of the sport and pretty much every one of their meets is treated like high school football. same thing with Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Oklahoma.
But, and this is the difference between the UFC crowd and the EliteXC crowd, the UFC crowd by and large is aware that things are happening on the ground. it’s not just 2 people lying on each other. people are looking to pass guards, set up holds, and counters to those holds. Contrast this with what happened at EliteXC, where the second anyone went to the ground, that unitiated crowd immediately commenced booing.
I’m not going to say that there aren’t fans at a UFC show who come to it looking to see a blood-and-guts war. But by trhe same token… there are plenty who can enjoy a tightly-contested 5-round fight where takedowns and various submission attempt. And thank you for not stereotyping all of us. It’s appreciated.
Wow, that was tough to watch.
I literally felt sick in my stomach when I saw her at the end.
shon,
I’m not telling you what to speak of, I’m just asking that you not compare MMA or Boxing to that guy who got beat up for 173 dollars who you knew.
The guy that stumbles across CBS on EliteXC night and watches Gina Carano fight some other tomato can girl and watches to see the boobs bounce up and down and the bloody noses are the people who you think are the main fanbase in MMA.
The fact is, this was not a bout put on by any of the major MMA organizations. This was not a bout put on at a Las Vegas casino, it was put on by an organization that does not have a history of success like the UFC or to a lesser extent EliteXC or the groups others have listed. Just because it was at the Thomas and Mack Center doesn’t mean it’s important. Check it:
“Despite the perception of Ultimate Fighting as a brutal sport, injuries are relatively minor and rare. “We’ve never had a serious injury,” says Dana White, “and what I consider a serious injury is something that changes the quality of your life. We’ve had cuts and broken hands. I think the most serious injury we had was a broken forearm.” Most injuries occur during training rather than in the Octagon — some fighters train six to eight hours a day for several weeks leading up to a fight.”
If you don’t watch boxing that’s fine, and I don’t mind how you comment it’s not really a big deal. I didn’t tell you how to comment or that you couldn’t comment. I hope your friends that participate in MMA do well, and I hope you wish them well in their decision to participate.
MODI - MMA has been around long before this recent war in Iraq. UFC has been around longer than this war in Iraq. No offense, but fans of the sport have been fans of the sport longer than this war in Iraq. Just because now you turn it on the television and you see women fighting and then tuck back the sack to write about how a fighter’s jaw got broke in a fight they chose to participate in doesn’t mean that all of the sudden this current state of civilization promotes this brand of violence. As if it’s new and shit…
This entire commentary could’ve been written about MMA and how violent it is, without the images contained in it. This entire commentary could’ve been researched to include actual barbarian still photos from some of the original UFC fights that included sumo wrestlers fighting lightweights. That was roman-esque gladiator shit. What you watch on the tv now are skilled athletes who turned their skills into money making ventures. That old UFC shit was disgusting to watch, and there’s a reason why it was run off of pay per view.
What else do you want former NCAA champion wrestlers to do when they graduate? Go to WWE? That’s a joke… I’d go out on a limb and say 9 out of 10 fights end up with the losing fighter looking better than any victim of a Mike Tyson knockout. Fights are ended when a fighter can longer intelligently defend themselves. Different organizations have different rules. The 5 minute rounds for the women are a little extreme, but they have a choice to train and fight underground and off-tv and not in such glamorous arenas as the Thomas and Mack Center just because their husbands are Randy Couture.
Okori-
I didn’t say the match was the best there is to offer and I think you know that. If you bother to read what I wrote I’m talking about the commission in charge of the bout, which also happens to be the preeminent boxing commission as well.
Boney-
I can tell you didn’t even bother to look at who wrote the piece or perceive the style in which it was written.
Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling skills are definitely what make MMA strategic. The ground game is what separates it from backyard brawling. Like I said before, mismatches make the sport look a lot worse than it is. Having watched a marathon of MMA over the weekend, I have to say I didn’t give the human body its due credit for healing. A lot of those matches were brutally exciting two or three round wars with both guys walking out of the match with swollen heads and faces. Within a week, for the most, they were back doing full contact training. These dudes are warriors. There isn’t any rationalizing to a warrior.
If someone is being pummeled into the floor by someone straddling them, its because they’ve made a mistake or miscalculation. Being pounded into the floor is a “finishing move”. If the person isn’t “finished”by that…its probably because they don’t want to lose and they’re fighting to get up from under them. In that case the referee has to make a judgment call, much like boxing. That’s far from what I thought was happening before I sat down to digest the sport in an attempt to understand it. If a Jiu Jitsu dude has your arm or leg or head in a hold and is about to put you out or break something, the person in the hold has already made a mistake. They have chances of releasing or reversing the hold if they have the experience, knowledge and leverage to do so. A lot of times, in mismatches, they don’t…so they give up by tapping out. Similarly, the most vicious knockouts in boxing come when someone walks into a punch or doesn’t see a punch coming because swelling or bleeding around the eye or inexperience.
The most brutal matchups are mismatches. We shouldn’t condemn a sport because one of two people didn’t realize they sucked. In fighting there’s always going to be people are too proud, too cocky, too arrogant. They won’t respect the sport…they won’t respect the opponent…they’ll chase the dollar…they’ll chase the pride and glory. And they’ll get knocked the fuck out.
I’m sorry, Okori, but that was disgusting. I made it to the midway point of round two before turning it off. That doesn’t make me “pussified” - makes me human.
You want to defend the finer points of grappling, Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu, etc., that is your right, of course. But ultimately what you had in this “match” between two “fighters” was blood on the mat within the first few seconds of action, courtesy of one combatant who fought with half her face caved in for the entirety of the bout.
That was not, repeat, WAS NOT a street fight, although for brief moments I’ll admit it did resemble one. In a street fight, that kind of blood and guts bullshit is commonplace. But in civilized society, quite simply, a fight like that one, which claims to be a “sporting event” with paid participants, should have been stopped.
The only other “sport” I can think of in which the aim is to maim and kill is the human hunting of a variety of other animals, or pitting other animals against each other in a fight to the death.
Is that what you’re advocating for us humans, Okori (along with the idiot Boney)? I can dig your appreciation of the “art” of MMA, and I respect that (I, too, have friends who are accomplished martial artists and love MMA), but what I saw in the videos was not physics, centers of gravity, or the proper placement of hands in order to execute take downs or escapes. It was bloodlust, my friend, pure and simple.
Just re-read my comment, and I want to make something clear: I do not intend to say that the aim of an MMA bout is kill the opponent (maim, yes; kill, no). I do intend to say that as a culture, we do seem to be sliding down that slippery slope, and that “sports” like MMA (and, yes, boxing, too) are some of the reasons why.
I mean, you (we, all of us) wanted to watch that bout because the fine art of jiu-jitsu was on display? or was it because there was a moment early in the fight where one chick’s thong damn near popped out? or because one chick’s blood and teeth were dotted across the mat?
Shid, jiu-jitsu has seen much better representation over the hundreds of years its been in existence than it saw it that “fight.” But we have rarely seen one chick beat hot dookie out the other chick any better than that.
So which is more alluring?
As a species, we’re headed down the wrong path, that’s all I’m saying.
I don’t like women’s MMA. it’s a bridge too far for me.
and if D-Wil wants to see what MMA is at its best (not that I believe he does) go and find a copy of the following matches:
BJ Penn v. Jens Pulver from UFC 35
Urijah Faber v. Jen Pulver from the most recent WEC live show
Randy Couture v…. well anyone. that man is a god.
dwil, I understand who wrote the piece. I also realize that the piece is all over the place with wild comparisons and accusations, intermittent research and even more political hyperbole that I’ve come to know and love from you.
You put the videos up because women are fighting in the fight, otherwise you would’ve written about the EliteXC fight where the fight ended because of an eye gouge and the guy told the doc he couldn’t see, only to want to continue fighting. Or you would have written about the big bubble bursting on the side of Colossus Thompson’s head and the standing ovation that received from the masses at the Meadowlands, who have been described as blood thirsty savages.
BFD about a fight at the Thomas and Mack Center. That’s like saying the radio DJ fight I saw last year at the Patriot Center on the Jimmy Lange undercard was legit because it was held at the Patriot Center.
And to my buddy TheLastPoet,
I’ve never referred to you by any other “name” than TheLastPoet. Just because you get to a 2nd round of a video that was selectively chosen out of the thousands of other videos that show true MMA fighting and then your sack tucks back up doesn’t mean I should be disrespected with a name. So kiss my ass with all that bullshit.
Noone is forcing you to watch MMA. The evil media is not pushing it onto you or into your living room. It’s not the priest that’s going to rape your son, it’s not the dope fiend that’s going to steal your wallet in a dark alley. It’s not the WMD that’s non-existent and it’s not the white man that you think hates you. There are plenty of other problems outside of a poorly researched MMA piece which includes video “highlights” of women fighting with the undertones of “there’s something wrong with women fighting”.
MMA is a sport, believe it or not. It’s not a microcosm of today’s society. It’s not american bloodlust. It’s a sport that has been around for many years. Dwil was right about maybe a handful of items in the commentary, the main point was that Kim Couture is not experienced enough to be fighting on a big stage, which is why she was part of the card she was a part of. The rest is just opinions, which is fine, but with a little bit of research half of this commentary wouldn’t exist.
Give me respect, and I’ll give you respect. If you can’t respect me, then the best I can do is say kiss my ass with your uptight bullshit and don’t speak unless spoken to.
Yeah, DWil did say the commission, not the bout was the best. Unless he edited his post, y’all owe him an apology for piss poor reading comprehension.
And he called the chick inexperienced and said she didn’t deserve the exposure, that was key to his argument. So, y’all need to come back to the post, man up and admit y’all effed up.
I”m waiting for the folks who said Dwil wrote that this was the best representation of the sport to come back and say they were wrong. The way I read it, he said the Nevada commission was the best and should have stepped in and stopped the fight.
Boney
“The white man you think hates you?” Shit, how much more proof do I need that there are quite a few white people who hate me and anybody like me, and there are even more of them who allow the hateful white people to run shit. How much more has to happen before it becomes something I know, rather than think?
Don’t speak unless spoken to.
This shit was classic Boney. Just classic. Didn’t Shon already let you know that grown men have the right to say whatever the fuck they want?
I don’t mean to be jumping in Poet’s argument, but that shit was just ridiculous.
Bones
You gotta be the dumbest son of a mother fucker that I’ve ever encountered on these interwebs.
You’re too stupid to warrant my respect, so quit asking for it.
And the notion that you would even think of telling me what to do or when to speak made me laugh out loud. Perhaps that approach works with your chain smokin trailer trash redneck momma or your flat ass dirty blond muffin top sister-slash-girlfriend, but you should miss me with all that.
Anyway, on to your “argument”… “No one is forcing me to watch MMA,” “MMA is a sport and not a social microcosm,” and something about my “sack” (seriously, why the constant references to male genitalia, something secret you want to share, Boney? are you trapped in the closet? don’t ask, don’t tell?) …on second thought, there is no argument worth discussing here, so nevermind.
Let’s just ride out on the aforesaid insults. Here’s one more: naah forget it, I’ve lowered myself enough already just to catch your likeness fading fast in the rear view mirror…
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!!!
This guy dwil tries to sound insightful, but he’s just an abrasive jackass. You hate MMA; too bad you can’t stop it from growing.
Only a complete moron could have written this. Everyone who writes these long asshole comments supporting him is a moron as well. All the MMA fans reading this, don’t bother to debate or refute their points. You will never change the mind of an MMA detractor, no matter what logical argument you try to offer. Just let them swim in their own piss. UFC 86 is coming soon.
wow, if anyone thought this was “hard” to watch, grow up, seriously, youve seen worse on the news, she knew full well what could happen coming into this sport, she put the gloves on and the mouthguard in, so for anyone to sit here and say, “that was hard to watch”, “i felt sick watching that”, its your own fault cuz you can change the channel or click the back button, so seriously, just grow up.